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Tim: Hello, welcome to The Control Your Cash Podcast and it is our pleasure to have Scott Goodrich. Scott is a business consultant and the name of his business is grow your damn business. But on top of that, he and his wife own a business called get your damn haircut. And Scott’s going to share with us his unique story, uh, his entrepreneurial journey. What that led him to and more importantly, what were some of the pitfalls that he had experienced? Scott, welcome to our show.

Scott: Thank you so much for the intro and thanks for having me. Looking forward to it. Tim Olivia. Nice to see you today. Thanks for having me.

Olivia: pleased to see you as well, Scott.

Tim: So Scott, tell us about, you know, you worked in the corporate world and tell us what you were going through, you know, sort of like the gestation of, you know, you get your job, you’re, you’re working in the corporate world. You think this is the greatest thing since sliced bread. And then And you know, what were the sort of red flags or the things that you had seen that said, you know, this ain’t my cup of tea.

Scott: Yeah, that it’s interesting because I had done a lot of entrepreneurial things as a teenager and coming up and then got into college and You know, a lot of the folks around me were accountants and accountants get jobs out of college, and I’m looking around going, what am I going to do, right? I didn’t really have that, that set plan.

My degree was in political science, which a lot of times leads to law school. It’s what my father did, uh, can lead to a lot of things. Well, for me, it led to a sales job because I wasn’t ready to go out on my own. So starting in sales and then, uh, made a pivot, uh, from sales, um, into sales leadership and then ultimately onto the operations side and just sort of worked my way through a couple different companies.

Moving my way up there. Uh, so kind of left that entrepreneurial thing behind me. Um, in the mid, around 2015, 2016 Um, I took, you and I were talking before we got started here, I took one of those those hits to the gut, if you will, and got, was in the middle of a company reduction and realized, although I had a job and a paycheck, it’s not that security that comes with that necessarily. Right, just because you have that all the time, right, there’s always that chance it could happen. And so when that ended, I said, how would I get more control of what I’m doing? So I had some money that I could invest and so made the decision to invest into a franchise opportunity labeled as or marketed as, um, absentee CEO, right?

The old passive income marketing. So. Mistake number one. There is no such thing as absentee CEO. There is no such thing as passive income. So, right there. Uh, so, so that, that’s learning right about. And, and we love the concept. The concept was based out of Portland, Oregon at the time and had a really good footprint in the, in the upper northwest.

So Portland and Seattle were the, were sort of the anchors of the franchise. And my wife and I just loved, loved the concept and thought it had legs. And, and the team that was leading it really had a really great story to tell. So it was easy for us to track in there, but the operating model was, was not what we expected.

So, uh, lesson number two on that is that the operating model that we were handed was, uh, was, was not ready for prime time. And unfortunately, I was trying to take some things that I learned from leading larger companies and larger teams into running a small business. Well, that doesn’t work either, right?

It’s good knowledge, like I was. I don’t know, a smart guy or smart enough guy, but it wasn’t knowledge that was gonna help me get this business started in the way that it should have. And so, uh, those first few years were painful, to say the least, trying to Be an absentee CEO without a straight operating model is just, it was a lot of, um, earning money on one side and, uh, and putting it back into the business to just keep it afloat on the other side.

Uh, you know, really treading water and, uh, on certain months drowning, um, you know, operating in the red all too often.

Tim: So that’s a struggle that a lot of small business owners work with, which is the cash flow issue. Uh, we commissioned a research report. There’s over a million dollars worth of research, and it came back with what we refer to as the three disturbing trends that threaten small business owners and put the next generation at risk. But the number one trend, as you probably know, is cash flow. And it seems that, according to Intuit, 61 percent of small business owners struggle with cash flow issues. 69 percent of small business owners either admitted to sleeping less or losing sleep due to cash flow concerns. Now I’ve worked with small business owners in the financial services sector for 38 years and here’s what I found Scott, every one of those cash flow issues was self inflicted meaning that it wasn’t the amount of revenue.

that the company had that was holding them back or was creating their cash flow issues. It was literally how they were using their money. I call that the financial golf swing. And when you utilize, when you’re using the club properly in golf, it’s a beautiful thing. You hit these straight, beautiful shots. And, but when you’re not using the club properly, it could get ugly, as we all know. But the point is, how you’re using your money is way more effective than where your money is. And that’s what we teach our clients. We teach them how to utilize their cash flow in a much better way. But one of the things, the unique things that I liked about your story, uh, share with our audience. What your budget was as far as, you know, your, your revenue and, and, or I’m sorry, your overhead. And where were you from a cash position? Because that was the thing in our pre call that really stood out and struck me.

Scott: Yeah, so I, I, let, let me admit to a few things here. So, uh, shortly after, uh, Deciding to, to build, to go into this franchise world and take this on because it wasn’t well run and because we were running in the red and my wife was already working full time. She had never stopped working. I actually went back and got a JOB because I needed to find a way to bring some more cash to the table.

So mistake number one is I went out and tried to find a salary that was going to allow me to keep this business going. So now when I say I’m literally moving money from one pocket to the other, right, it’s going in one pocket and going out. The other side because I thought that was the answer. I wasn’t fixing the fundamental challenges in the business So tim your point is spot on I wasn’t actually addressing The the the illness right?

I was on a symptom. Oh, let me just find a way to mark money I’m sure it’ll be better next month. Right and then i’m sure it’ll be the next month. So that’s that’s a wish That’s a hope that’s not a plan Right. So, so, and that kept going and going. And the irony, Tim, that I shared with you here is it’s a haircut and color retail storefront, right?

So we got it internet proof, right? You cannot take your haircuts online. So really thought that was great. Not pandemic proof. So, right as we’re getting into March, and, you know, we had been on the struggle bus for some time, just as I’m describing here, with expenses outweighing revenues, weren’t quite hitting the market, we thought we were in a good location, but we hadn’t hit it yet.

And so, we went into the pandemic really struggling and doing this kind of dance with, okay, we’ll make a little money here, but then we’ve got to put it back in, or I have to invest more personal money from a savings account into this thing. And then the pandemic hit and of course we had to shut down that was mandated by the state and we went back and look my wife and I did just recently and in our bank account at the beginning of the pandemic, we were down to 230 in our in the bank account to finance this this business and it’s all W2 employees, you know, we’re not renting chairs.

We actually are paying people to do this and you’ve got to have coverage. The model for this was a walk in business, which means you had to have people on An hourly rate, hourly plus commission, but they had to be there in case someone did walk in. So we had no idea, no predictability. We all, all we know is we had to have people there.

Do we have to have two people there? Do we have to have six people there? You never knew, right? Because we didn’t have a really good insight into that thing. I mean, it was just a lot of flawed fundamentals that sitting here today seems so obvious, but when you’re in the middle of it. And I wasn’t doing the right things.

I wasn’t reaching out to anybody. We weren’t getting all the support from the franchise from an operations side. Like, literally, we were looking for a lifeline, couldn’t find it. We weren’t aggressive in going to look at it and just said, Well, we’ll just keep kind of charging and working on this one side in order to see if this thing will ever kind of catch fire magically.

Um, so, a lot of bad stuff going on in those first three years of this little venture that we were on.

Tim: So how did you and your wife manage to work your way through that, get through it. What did you come upon or what ideas were you able to implement that got you through all of the mud, if you will. Could, could,

Scott: to heart talks. You talked about losing sleep about cash. Well, we simply lost sleep. Do we even want to open this thing up? Do we just take all of the losses that we’ve incurred thus far and close the door and deal with it? Like a lot of businesses did in the pandemic. There’s a lot of restaurants that went that way.

A lot of retail storefronts like that. Tim, Olivia, I’m not telling you guys anything you don’t know. You probably had clients or people that you know that went through that same, same journey.

Tim: could I share some data with you?

Scott: Please, let’s do it.

Tim: uh, 40 percent of all retail businesses. That closed during the pandemic, reopened. And I really think, and some of those businesses were third and fourth generation businesses. It is a sin. You know, listen, the pandemic was bad enough. But the state’s response to the pandemic Was a crime against humanity.

And it’s really a shame what they did to small business owners.

Olivia: Yeah, and at the end of the day, the small business owner is the backbone of the U. S. economy, right? And to Scott’s point, you know, there were struggles going on before that pandemic, and it pushed so many people over that edge that there was no return. You know, so a lot of people get into the small business like Scott was mentioning for that sense of freedom, for that sense of control, for that sense of, you know, being in charge of your own destiny.

And, you know, it’s, it’s not easy. It doesn’t come with an owner’s manual. Um, there’s a lot of things that have to be learned on the fly. And, you know, if you’re not going for those efficiencies along the way, it could be a real struggle. You know, especially when push comes to shove and then. The world shuts down.

Scott: Yeah, yeah, guys, guys are spot on, right? And look, this. We only had so much influence. We had o over the, the state and what was going on there. And I, I think obviously uncharted waters decisions that, that were being made, you know, that, that were impacting folks. You know, we could probably talk for hours on that.

You know, that’s, that didn’t even sweat that so much. It, we just took a person say, you know, what is going to happen here? What, what is it, what are we going to do? Because this is our money , our savings that have, and the investment that we made. What, what are we going to do here? And so this is where I have to give all the credit to my wife, who decided no, and she, she’ll be the first to tell you, she’s stubborn, and when she decides she’s going to dig into something, she digs in.

So she made the decision that, ironically, she had left her previous job before the pandemic hit by just a couple days. We had no idea what was coming, but she had just, that had run its course, it had been 20 plus years, and she was going to do something different. Well, the pandemic hit. She, we weren’t just, we were

She said, okay, I’m gonna take this challenge on, like, I’m going to dig in both hands and figure out how, how to get this, get this back going. So we took this challenge and, and found the gift in the challenge. She, she dug in despite it’s not what she wanted to do, but realized we could change our operating model.

Some of it was required, so we went from walk-ins to appointments. Right. That was the first thing to control it. The second thing is we reduced our hours. Right. Big operational change. The operating model of that franchise, and I know it sounds silly, was to be open for a long period of time so that you could take people when they wanted to come in and you’d have this walk in traffic.

All sounds well and good, but if you don’t have a big clientele and you’re open for 12 hours, that’s tough on staff. It was a money suck. It was just dragging money out. So we said, no, we’re going to control the flow, appointment only. Concentrate the clients, right? Those are the first things. We changed the way that we compensated folks so that they would win when we won, right?

So that was an incentive for them to get on board, work their social media accounts, bring in their clients there, right? And then we dug into the real. So, I would just, we went micro on the business and really started to identify those areas where there was real leakage, what was going on, where could we make moves and just kept tweaking and tweaking and tweaking and, oh, we have this challenge, we can do this here and oh, this is the one marketing source that’s really working for us, so let’s stop throwing stuff against the wall and concentrate dollars here.

We just got smart. The sad part of this is that we just weren’t getting any of this information from our franchisor, so, you know, I. If you find the right franchisor, there is that playbook that’s given from an operational side. But if you find the wrong one, they’re really good in the marketing side. But the, the operating playbook for a new startup of a, of a location is not there ’cause they, they’re at a different stage or they wouldn’t be franchising. They’ve got a mature business. And, and so we rewrote the playbook for ourselves. We rewrote the operational manual operational playbook and, and it, we, it, it just started to hit for us. We started to realize we could. We could maximize and optimize this opportunity and actually opening less, concentrating more, and that began the road back.

And we started to see real inroads, um, as we got into the summer and then into the fall of 2020, sort of post the pandemic. And it’s been nothing but a straight upward trajectory since that time, uh, to a remarkable degree, actually.

Tim: So that’s a great point. You know, you, it seems like you. Part of your DNA was this entrepreneurial spirit. And you sort of abandoned it when you got into the corporate world. But that’s a fire that it’s either in you or it isn’t. And it was clearly in you and that led you to, okay, wanting to be in business for yourself, control your own destiny.

And, you know, getting in on the franchise side is usually a good idea because theoretically the franchise or has. everything figured out and he’s gonna, or they’re going to, uh, hand you over the key, so to speak of a turnkey operation. But what you realized probably too late, you know, there’s an old Dutch saying that, you know, too old, too fast, too smart, too slow.

And what happened is you realize, you know, we don’t have the support here that we need. And in,

Scott: to hear that, but that’s what was going on. I don’t think it was, you know, intentional, obviously as a franchisor you want your franchisees to succeed. It was just what had worked for them at the time that they were building the business out in their home market was just different than opening up with no brand recognition in a new market.

Those are just two different things. And so what worked in one wasn’t going to work in the other and I just don’t think the playbook was, was adopted or adapted. I should say adapted for, for opening in new markets. And then we compounded the problem by not doing the right thing. Tim, it’s funny you mentioned, I’m going to, I’m going to be critical of myself here.

Because, yes, I say, I’ve done entrepreneurial things and I’m on to a couple other ventures even since the, um, since the haircut business got, got going. But an entrepreneur keeps going in the face, even when things are challenging. And what I did was went back to work. So I, I do challenge myself. Like, do I, is that, so the spirit is there, but is it like, there are some folks that I talked to, I’m sure that you do, they couldn’t imagine working for anybody else. They couldn’t, they can’t bring themselves, even when times are at their worst, that, that confidence, that, that crazy. Irrational belief that they’re going to get it turned around exists. If I’m going to be honest with myself, I’m not sure that’s all there. We’ve made a go of it through stubbornness and stick to it ness and all those characteristics. But it’s funny, you know, Gino Wickman, the author of the book, and I’ve used this on my podcast a little bit and share it with you. He believes that all entrepreneurs are born not made. You either got it or you don’t. Now, you can still run a business out there, but he says the true entrepreneurial spirit, the true entrepreneur, is born and can’t think of doing anything else ever.

And anything else that they’re doing is just fake because they always are going to go back to the roots. And so I wrestle with this one just as I go back and forth and I, and I appreciate what we’ve done and really what my wife has been able to do and build this and I give her all that credit for it.

But that’s just pure stick to it ness. I don’t know if that’s that internal thing. So this is my internal debate. You’re getting a little bit into my brain here. This

Tim: not intentionally, Scott, but, uh, but you know, you, so let’s, let’s sort of pivot. So, so you, you and your wife worked your way through this, figured it out and then put yourselves in a position to profit from that. And then you had mentioned the book. We didn’t mention the title. It’s it’s traction.

Scott: Traction, yeah, that’s the book that all of EOS is based on, and the book that Gino wrote, you know, over a million copies out there, you know, for any entrepreneur, a must read. Just gotta read it. You don’t have to do all of it, you don’t have to get a coach, but you’re gonna grab something from it. So if you haven’t read it yet, you’re running a small business, spend a couple hours, read the book.

Pay attention to what’s in there. Like there’s some real gold in there and then you can figure out what works for you from there.

Tim: Exactly. So for, for our listeners out there, EOS means entrepreneurial operating system. And Scott is a implementer for EOS. So Scott share with us how you came about EOS, how you became certified or, uh, you know, uh, Registered to be an implementer and how that helps entrepreneurs.

Scott: Yeah, I appreciate your letting me do that. So the journey to EOS for me comes in three parts. And part of the story that they just heard is a big part of that. It’s just lessons learned and not wanting others to go through what I did. Whether you’re into a franchise or doing it on your own and bringing those to the table.

Uh, the second part of it is just this coaching gene that seems to run. I’ve been doing coaching in one aspect or another for seemingly 30 plus years, whether it was in that corporate world, doing mentoring, being part of internal company mentoring programs. I’ve created training classes for new managers as they’re coming through.

I love to see people succeed. Um, I took a turn for three, four years in college and shortly thereafter I was a basketball coach. Like, I, that’s, that’s just part of who I am and I, and I enjoy that. And that’s very much what an implementer does is just help to coach small business owners through some of these challenges.

So those are those, those two pieces there. The third piece is really just a, you know, I’ve been in operations and execution for a lot of years and there’s a lot of things that I’ve learned. from that about getting stuff done. So you kind of take this execution arm, which is really what EOS is. It’s about execution, right?

The word systems in there has nothing to do with I. T. It is about executing with discipline and accountability each and every day. So you got execution, you got coaching. So I try to bring that to clients and then obviously sharing the, the story that I, that I have around my own business and, and say, hey, here’s some things not to do.

It’s the best teacher, right? When you fail and struggle, it’s the best teacher. Just trying to impart some of that and say, hey, here’s a potential pitfall, here’s a potential area of concern. Let’s get ahead of it or let’s plan for it. Um, let’s be intentional around what the next steps are as opposed to being reactive.

And to me, that’s really the most important thing that I can bring to anyone that’s got a small business and is struggling and trying to figure out a different way forward.

Olivia: Yeah, absolutely. So, um, tell us a little bit about, so did you come into the EOS system through, through the book? Um, is that where you first were introduced? And then how did you decide that it was something that you wanted to, you know, do and bring to other people? You know, what connected with you there?

Um,

Scott: then what I know now, uh, cause I wouldn’t have had all those struggles and we wouldn’t be having a story about my, my limited bank account. Uh, cause, cause now that you’re sort of in the ecosystem of EOS, it’s very clear that there’s some really basic things that every entrepreneur should be doing.

Whether they’re using EOS another system, but there’s some really fundamental stuff. Um, so ironically, yes, I did come to it academically, right? I was talking to some folks about what I wanted to do next and The things that I had done and tell my story a little bit it those that were in the know said hey You need to read a couple books See what this is like see if this resonates with you and it and it absolutely did so the minute I read traction and then the follow up rocket fuel Which, which is about how, uh, uh, the, the first and second command.

So the owner and founder, then his or her second in command, how they interact with one another. But that combination of books really lays out the path for any entrepreneur to follow to really fulfill on what they originally set out to do in their business. And so when I read those books, I’m like, Oh, well, that’s me.

That’s the things that I really believe in. I’ve been doing many of them. I haven’t been using the same terminology. necessarily, but it just so that came together nicely. And then it said, well, hey, I can go out and coach. And now we’re back to being out in your own again. So I left that W two world again and that J.

M. E. One said, I’m gonna do this on my own. And I would say that the the beautiful thing is what E. U. S. Is constructed. Yes, the anyone that coaches with the U. S. We are franchise owner. So here I am once again in a franchise world, but they actually do have the playbook. The process is to because No kidding, right?

They run on EOS. So, EOS runs on EOS, so there’s actually a proven

Olivia: what they preach,

Scott: Imagine that. Yeah, walk the walk, talk the talk, right? So, uh, that’s exactly what’s doing so. And jokingly, my wife who really has the reins of the haircut franchise, you know, she looks at it and goes, well, that’s kind of laid out a little better than what we had, right?

You may have gotten the better of the two franchises in terms of how we spend our time. Um, and credit to EOS for what’s been built out. So that platform is there. Now, you have the tools. Now it’s about meeting a client, making sure it’s a good match, and seeing if my personality and my story resonates with them in an effort to help them, and that’s a process that we go through with every client.

Oftentimes a client will talk to multiple implementers in trying to find the right person for their situation, because it’s a personality match as much as is, I like EOS or I don’t like EOS, right? So we want to have both those things, and that’s the process that we go through. We now run our business on EOS and I can tell you we have, we’ve exceeded even our expectations in what we could do with our business after running it on EOS the last year.

The things that we now do, the decisions we now make, the lens in which we view our business through, even now is dramatically different than it was just 12, 14 months ago. Um, because of, of what we’ve been able to, to bring into the business and how we run it now using all of the tools and techniques that are part of EOS and as we were just reflecting this actually had our kind of a year in review of what we did and like, wow, we do a lot of things really, really well right now that, um, that we can attribute to the framework and the system in quotation marks that is EOS and how it lays out You know, here’s the, here’s the way that you want to run this business day in and day out.

Really is, I can attribute a lot of our success in the last 12 months to those techniques that are in there. I can now be a walking advertisement for how effective this can be for a small business owner. 

Tim: And that’s the best advertisement, right? I mean, because nothing could replace experience.

Scott: yeah. And a lot of folks that are implementers. Come from companies that were running on EOS. So their story is very closely tied to it. So they are working for a company They’re either on the leadership team Maybe they own the company or but they say boy this what EOS did for me I want to share with others so that spirit of taking what’s learned and sharing with others that is present across 720 EOS implementers across the globe.

Like that, that is very, anyone you talk to is going to have that same thing. And whether you came to EOS through the book or through a company you worked in, or through someone that referred you, or you were friends with someone else that was doing this, there is this, this genuine tie to the power of the tool, right?

And really put in the end, really truly understanding that this is, this is fundamental change in how you run your business. But if you do follow and do dig in and are willing to do the work when you come out on the other side You’re gonna have what you want from your business whether that is to get it ready for sale Get it ready for the next generation Tim as you mentioned, right?

So so being able to continue it on there, whether it’s just to grow to the next level Maybe it’s I want to keep it running, but I actually do want to have more time So I’m spending 80 hours in this business and I just want to spend 30, right? I’ve done 10 years of 80 hours or 8 years of 80 hours. How do I stop being in it for 80 hours?

Well, there’s a lot of things that we do in the U. S. to reduce that time in there and make it more fulfilling and maybe have it be what you want it to be, which was flexible and be proud of what you built and creating opportunity for others. Like all of that is part of the, the intent and what we try to do when we’re bringing this forward to an organization is giving peace of mind to a business owner that may or may not have it before we met them.

Olivia: Yeah, absolutely. And I feel like beginning with the end in mind and having that intention of what you want to do and what you want to achieve and what you want your life to look like is so important. Scott, could you share with us? I know you mentioned the framework of the EOS. Could you share with us a little bit more about, you know, what’s involved in the EOS, that system?

And, you know, it seems really interesting and really impactful for business owners. You know, bringing to light, you know, even a few of the most impactful systems or, or techniques that you guys talk about would be great.

Scott: Sure. The fundamental thing that we try to bring to business owners, um, is really three things. One, having a clarity of vision, understanding where you’re going and more importantly, how you’re going to get there and making sure that’s clear to everyone involved, your leadership team, anyone that works for you.

So clarity of vision. The second is actually gaining traction in your business and that is operating with discipline. Accountability, high execution, right? Building that accountability up and down the organization so that everyone in the organization cares just as much as the owner does, which is not always the case.

And the third is we work in building team health. So it can’t be a one person show. That business has no value if it’s a one person show. You need to be a healthy, cohesive team that likes working together because that actually demonstrates to anyone that may be interested in your buying business that you actually have a business and not Tim’s Snack Shop.

Right? If it’s just Tim’s Snack Shop, if Tim goes away, there’s no business. But if you can demonstrate that you’ve got a real operating model and you can point to this is the way this thing is structured, you actually have a business that has some value. And if that’s a desire of yours to sell it. Get there.

So vision, traction, healthy are the three things that we do for every client.

Olivia: Yeah. Mm

Scott: things that have made all the difference for us in our business. Okay. The first is one of the big components that we help clients with is people. We typically find that 60 plus percent of all issues related to running a business are in the people. It’s just the way it is. And so we really want to help business owners to identify. We borrow from Jim Collins here. Who are the right people? What are the right seats, right? What are the functions you really need to have to make this business go? That’s a right seat. And what are your core values in making sure that the people that you bring on are aligned with those core values? And we just say that you have to have both of those. You can’t have one or the other because if you have a right person in the wrong seat, that’s expensive. They don’t know what they’re doing. They’re nice people. That’s a lot of, we find that, right? So, hey, I liked, Mike brought my buddy in to, in to run this company with me but he actually doesn’t know what he’s doing.

But I like having him around so I keep paying him, right? That’s an expensive, right people, wrong seat. The flip side of that is the more damaging one, which is a wrong person, right seat. So, to any business owner that, that may catch a glimpse of this, if you have someone that is not aligned with your core values but is a really, really good employee, You need to think about letting them go right they be able to do the work But if they don’t align with your core values, they are a cancer in your organization Even if you don’t know what they’re doing, so this was lesson for us in our business We had a look we’re struggling for revenue.

We’ve detailed that we had a really high performing person But they did not align with what we wanted from the business what we were around and they were killing us Slowly every day with the things they were doing when we weren’t there

Olivia: Yeah. I mean, that’s so

Scott: writes E. And it, until that person left, but when that person left and took all their revenue away, we actually rose. was another thing that we broke through by, by just realizing that we’re not going to put up with that. It’s, it’s, it sounds so simple, but to make that call when you’re in a business, we don’t have that many, we’ve got a dozen employees, it’s not crazy big, but when one of those employees is doing things to work against you 

bad decision. Lesson learned. Open our eyes right to that. So critical.

Olivia: The company culture is so important, right? And the, in so many businesses, you know, as a consumer, I’ll walk in and Um, you know, I, I judge the, the owner by what the staff is bringing to the table. You know, I don’t, I don’t blame the employee. I blame the management because it’s, it’s top, it’s top down in that culture is so important because that’s what’s facing your, your customer, your clientele and representing you and your business.

Um, so yeah, that’s really great. And what else I was thinking about as you were talking. was how scary it could be to cut off the main revenue, right? But, but instead, you know, it sounds like you took that leap of faith and, and trusted that by staying true to your values and what you believe in and what you want to bring to the table, you were provided for even more by getting rid of what you call, you know, cancer.

You know, that, that toxicity within the business. So, um, that’s a really, that’s a really great story and very impactful.

Scott: Yeah, I mean, this, this person was representing between 25 and 30 percent of our monthly revenues, yet they represented 10 percent of our staff. So this is a high performer who’s no longer with us. Just was, just, just did not fit. Uh, believe a little bit late to get there, but it was, but you know, like when that was coming, other folks just stepped in, right?

Other, they took it on and they, they stepped up because they, they saw we were willing and committed to this. And so now to today, we, we utilize this language with all of our folks. We have three core values, and if there is not an alignment on those three core values, we just don’t have room for you. And that’s okay.

There’s other spots out there. And, and frankly, there is actually. There’s less, there’s less hair stylists than there are jobs in our market. So, so we, we, we are always looking for people, but we’re also willing to not have someone stay with us if they don’t fit. that’s, we just, that’s, that’s our, that’s our force.

And, and that’s. That allows us to have all the right people around us all the time, and that’s critical, right? And it allows for, and then folks feel like they belong, and then they’re going to stay for longer. It helps your retention, your customers feel it, you know, as they’re coming through, as you described.

Right? I mean, it can say a lot of things, and I mean, I just, I use Chick fil A, which is a big national brand, but you know when you’re in a Chick fil A, you know how you’re going to get treated.

Olivia: Yep.

Scott: you right now, I’m a fan. I never, I have never been treated wrongly in Chick fil A. It does not matter what is going on.

And that’s a franchise. But that is a pervasive culture, and I, it’s, it’s real when you’re in there. You’ll get treated really well by everyone that works there, and it doesn’t matter what role they’re playing in that business on that day. And they won’t tolerate anything less.

Olivia: Right, right. And that’s so powerful, right? So, um, I was thinking that while you were saying, talking, talking through your story as well, how impactful it is to have those good experiences in, in these environments, in these businesses. Um, and I, I would argue it’s even more impactful, you know, when it’s in your community, you know, it’s good to.

See good people in your community and be treated well by people in your community and you know It’s easy to support those businesses, you know, it’s easy to want to see them succeed and and do what you can To do that, you know

Scott: Yeah, at Last Check, our little, our little 1, 100 five star reviews on Google. From

Olivia: It’s impressive

Scott: coming in and having the experience that they’re having. Um,

Olivia: really saying something

Tim: wow.

Scott: it’s a big focus of ours to deliver that. And, uh, The, the comments can be humbling when, when you read them ’cause of the clientele that we have and, and how we serve and the things that they, they’ll say about, I’ve never felt comfortable getting my haircut anywhere else.

This place, it allows me to be who I wanna be. I can come in here, do what I want. That we just allow for that as core, as one of our core values. It, and, and allows for that. And that we, we live it and it shows up when our clients talk about us and, and share, um, publicly what their experiences would like.

But you don’t hit them all, but to have that kind of response, um, we feel really good about.

Tim: That’s impressive. So, Scott, we love your story. We love how you found the gift in the struggle, came out much stronger on the other end. More importantly, we love your passion for helping business owners. So, how, how could our audience reach you? How, how can we find you?

Scott: Sure. Uh, so you can find me on LinkedIn. It’s, uh, scottgoodrich eos. So hopefully you can find me there. Pretty, pretty findable there. Um, you can email me directly scott. goodrich at eosworldwide and anyone who does email me reaches out that way. I’m happy to send them a free copy of the book traction. So, if they would like a copy, get their arms around that, we can shoot you up a free copy.

We still use old fashioned hard copies, so you have one physically to hold on to and reference back to. I mean, digital copies are available, but nothing like getting a book in your hand and really digging into it, and so we encourage folks to do that. So, that’s scott2ts. goodrich at eosworldwide. com.

Shoot me an email, I’ll send you a book. Ha ha ha!

Olivia: We appreciate that, Scott, and we appreciate you joining us today. You had a great story, um, you know, full of struggles and triumph, and those are the best stories, as I mentioned in our pre call.

Everyone loves a comeback story, and we also love that you have that experience now. My dad always used to tell me, you know, someone else’s mistakes are the cheapest lessons you could learn. And You know, we appreciate that you’re here sharing that with people and, and bearing all and also, you know, here with a solution and, and showing people the way so they don’t have to make those same mistakes.

Scott: Thanks for saying, I appreciate it. Tim, I’m much better at taking a punch these days. So, I’ve taken a few now, so yeah, I toughen up the jaw, uh, so I can take a punch a little better now than I may have done in my more fragile early years, let’s put it that way.

Tim: So, that’s, absolutely. That’s in reference to, in our pre call we had, we had discussed how everybody has a plan. according to Mike Tyson until he punches them in the face and then that just changes everything and that’s sort of what happens in business, right? You know, it’s amazing to see how your business has evolved. You never could have dreamed, I’m sure, that the business would look the way it does today, even a year ago. the key is, your As, as much as you plan, which you need to do, your business will not, it’s not a linear growth, right? It’s going to have the ups and the downs, and it’s going to morph or evolve into something you never could have imagined. And it’s probably going to be better than you thought,

Scott: If you do the right things and willing to fight the other, I 100%, every business, we like to say every business is going to hit ceiling. It’s inevitable. You’re going to hit them as an individual business owner and be like, uh, this is brutal. You’re going to feel like you hit him as a team or a department or a company like these ceilings are inevitable.

Do you have the tools? Do you have the wherewithal? Do you have things in place that allow you to fight through those ceilings when you hit those, those body blows that you’re bound to face? And we just try to help you provide you with a set of tools that you can go back to, to handle those when they come at you because they’re going to.

You’re right. It is not linear. It is not. It is not a straight line of growth at all. It comes with these plateaus and dips. Uh, how do you gonna rebound? How you gonna stick through it? And so hopefully, uh, we’ve got some tools for you. But, you know, we even within your own that there’s there’s some there’s some things you can turn to to get things going back in the correct direction.

Olivia: Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Scott, for joining us today. It’s been a pleasure having you. It’s been a pleasure and honor to hear your story. And, you know, I’m so happy that, you know, you made it through and that you’re here to show other people the way as well. So, um, if anyone wants to get in contact with Scott, please reach out to him.

He gave you some, some resources there, LinkedIn and his email. So thank you again so much, Scott, for joining us.

Scott: Thank you both for having me. Great speaking with you. 

Olivia: Hello and welcome to the control your cash podcast. I’m your host, Olivia Kirk.

Tim: And I’m Tim Yurek.

Olivia: Today, we have a great show in store for you. We have Bob Cordaro with us, who’s…

Bob: You’re assuming it’ll be great. That’s an assumption.

Olivia: From what I understand, this is going to be a great podcast. I heard that Bob is a great storyteller and also very influential in his space. He has a, a Bob Cordaro show on a local radio station, WILK.

Tim: Yeah, so uh, Dunmore High School. Played football for the incomparable Jack Henzes, University…

Bob: Won the championship that our senior year. 

Tim: Of course, well you guys were loaded too that year. Uh, and then of course, uh, University of Rochester. Academic All American. Uh, Phi Beta Kappa. I mean you check all the boxes, Bob.

Bob: And I mean all of them. I just continue and you’ll get there.

Tim: Yes. So, uh, local attorney, University of Pennsylvania Law School, local attorney, practicing mostly in business.

Bob: Mostly business. Ham and eggs though, I would say. It was a ham and egg guy. The things that once, the lawyers start being allowed to advertise, which I didn’t believe in, the personal injury and those kinds of things sort of went away.

So you, you, you re-concentrated and I always enjoyed business anyway. So I became a mostly business attorney, but I did ham and eggs. I did wills and estates and all kinds of whatever. Neighbors and friends and people needed small criminal cases, some decent sized criminal cases, a lot of stuff. So, 

Tim: So, you had a good business career as far as a lawyer, but that didn’t seem to rock your boat.

Bob: No, it did. 

Tim: It did? 

Bob: Yeah. I loved it. I liked the radio business. We built, two stations from the ground up. Rebuilt a third, I had five, radio stations and a billboard company at, at a, one particular time. And oddly enough, I’m flying to Madison, Wisconsin to look at a wireless cable company and a  radio station that had gone bankrupt.

And I said, I’m going to, I got five kids. And I got to be one of these guys that misses everything because he’s going to be on a plane. And I came home from that trip, actually my wife was on it with me, and I started selling the radio stations and the billboard company over the next few years. 

Tim: Right. 

Bob: And I said, I can make plenty of money as a lawyer, I don’t need to, I don’t need to get on this treadmill.

As enjoyable as it would be, your first responsibility is your kids, period. So, unfortunately, I had the Sisters Filippini, these Catholic nuns and they always told you to do your duty and, you know, you’re going to go to hell if you don’t and so forth. So I thought my duty once I was secure financially was to run for office and I did.

And then I won and that was, that was the worst of it.

Tim: Well, the first, the first time. You ran was for Congress, right?

Bob: Congress in 1988 as a Democrat.

Tim: In a Republican, jurisdiction, right. District, right. So one of the things, and you, I know you remember this is, tell, tell everybody about the ladder.

Bob: Oh, well, we were running against a guy named Joe McDade and he’d been in office for 26 years and he seldom even came home and I was doing an okay job, but I just thought our areas in trouble. I mean, like people can’t find jobs. They, young kids can’t stay here, all those kinds of things. So he’s not doing enough.

And, they asked me, the Democrat party asked me. Would you run in this primary because there’s a guy called Lyndon LaRouche and one of his disciples was going to be the nominee and he would be the first nominee from this Lyndon LaRouche, long lost Lyndon LaRouche wing of the Democrat Party to, to be a national candidate and it would give him a forum and it’d be embarrassing, Bob, would you do this for us?

I said, okay. I said, but if I’m going to do this, I’m going to tell people I’m not running in the fall. I just started one of my radio stations. We had a kid and a kid on the way. And so I, you know, I said, I don’t want to run in the fall. They said, but you have to say, you’re going to run the fall. And I said, but if I say I’m going to run in the fall, I’m going to run in the fall.

Well, you have to say it. And so I ended up running in the fall against McDade, which I knew I couldn’t win unless some insane miracle happened. But I figured we’re, we’re in this, we’re going to have fun with it. So we discovered that Joe McDade had, and I liked Joe McDade, I knew him before I’d worked on Capitol Hill.

I knew him, I’d see him around, I was at fundraisers of his and so forth. But, now I’m running against him. And, we discover that not only does he not come home, there were like 23 or 24 occasions where he either voted absentee or just so he didn’t even come home on election day. And there was two times he didn’t even vote for himself. He didn’t vote at all.

So, he had this fake house that was his address up in Clark Summit, so we went up there and I, funny, one of the people that went up with me is current Democrat Congressman Matt Cartwright. And we go up and WBRE’s there and they film us from the time we get out of the car. And we walk up and we’re standing on the sidewalk in front of his house and we have this voting record where he didn’t vote, didn’t vote, didn’t vote.

And, you know, that he truly isn’t from the area. So, he then comes home, and he said that, I was a peeping Tom. I was looking in his house, and he had a ladder he put up against the, the window of the second floor. And, it was pretty funny. And, that was a, that was a, I guess the highlight of the campaign, because it was both humorous and, even though I was going to get destroyed in the election, it got him to come home and actually campaign.

Olivia: So he just had this fake address, is that what you’re saying?

Bob: Basically. He would stay at a Ramada Inn in Clark Summit when he came home, which was not often. And, but he had to have an address. 

Olivia: Okay. So where was he actually, where was he actually from?

Bob: He was originally from here. 

Olivia: Okay.

Bob: The family was from Scranton. They were in the coal business.

Olivia: Okay. 

Bob: Neat house in Greenridge section of Scranton. 

Olivia: There are neat houses up there, aren’t there?

Bob: Yeah, and, yeah, but look he was a good guy, but I figured if I’m running against him, I’m going to run against him. 

Olivia: I’m bringing the news with me.

Bob: So I did. And we had some fun. There was a lot of things that would irritate you as a 26, 27 year old kid versus now they’re just totally humorous.

Olivia: So you ended up losing against him…

Bob: Yes, yes we lost.  

Olivia: And then running again for office.

Bob: Well, the funny thing I, and sadly Joe McDade’s no longer with us, but my friend Mark Walsh, he was taking me around to all the voting booths, all the voting places, that day. And I mean, they did everything but lay palms in front of me going, you know, going to visit and so forth.

So he’s going, Bob, he goes, I think we’re going to win. Let’s keep going. It was like six o’clock at night. We’ve been doing it since eight in the morning. I said, Mark, enough. I said, we’re not going to win. He goes, come on. Let’s… I said. Just because they’re being nice doesn’t mean they voted for me. Okay? And, and that night we did lose.

Substantially, I might add. So. 

Olivia: It was a good effort though. That’s a long day.

Bob: It was, it was fun and it was, but the, the district was sprawling, it still is. And you’d go up Route 6, which is the, the nickname for it is Sullivan’s Trail from an army general that marched that route. , I don’t even remember the war at this point.

Olivia: Mm-Hmm. 

Bob: But Route six that goes from, uh, like somewhere in Stroudsburg, but it’s runs through Scranton. Goes all the way up to Potter County where Adelphia cable was from at the time. 

Tim: Right. 

Bob: I mean, it was nine hours. End to end. It was. So I did a lot of driving. 

Olivia: Wow. 

Bob: And I would go and I would. We’d call ahead, and we’d get an interview with the local newspaper if they weren’t afraid of him, some of them were.

And, and go to a local radio station, and I’d do an interview, and I’d do the newspaper, and they’d take a picture. And that’s what the presence we had, and we, we tweaked, we tweaked Joe McDade pretty good.

Tim: Now, how. How were you received by him subsequent to the election?

Bob: We became friendly again. 

Tim: Oh, good.

Bob: Yeah. Yeah. There was an instance where, there was an event for Frank Carlucci, the defense secretary and just this extraordinary businessman/public servant from this area. And, it was up at Montage and sort of these confederates said Bob you got to be there, so we go my wife and I are there and we’re in this long receiving line and I wanted to meet Frank Carlucci.

I didn’t like want to make anything out of it. What was gonna happen and they, we get about, somebody comes up and it was one of Joe McDade’s aides ago. Oh, you’re Bob. Oh, yeah I’m so and so from Jake something from McDade’s office two seconds when we get within of Carlucci, they sent the, you know, they shut the reception line down.

And there was people behind us that wanted to meet Carlucci too. I go, don’t do, don’t shut down the line for me. I’ll, I just, I’ll get out of it. But they shut it down. It was, it was all those kinds of things.

Olivia: They were waiting for an excuse.

Bob: Yeah. It was just old school, old school politics. I remember we had the Scranton Tribune, the Scranton Times at the time.

Two newspapers, so I’m getting coverage in the papers because they’re competing with each other and McDade has never given them stories and McDade stopped giving the Tribune, which was theoretically the Republican paper. He stopped giving them his best press releases and given them to the Scranton Times.

Because even though the line of family was Democrats, they were neighbors, you know, when they grew up. So he starts giving the stories to the Times. Well, the Tribune calls me in and they do this huge profile in what was called the Scrantonian, the Sunday edition. I, you know, and they let me say whatever I wanted to say and how mediocre Joe McDay’s job was and everything.

And he just goes after them like a ton of bricks. And they say, so I figured I got entree with the Scranton Tribune. You know, at least I got one of the newspapers and he starts giving them the same news releases and attention and everything else. They got his attention with that interview with me. And we go back and I’m telling him about some event I had, and I think it was of significance.

I don’t remember what it was now. And the guy goes, who will be unnamed, he says, you know, we have a policy. I said, what is that? He goes an inch for an inch. I said, I’m lost. He goes, well, you have to buy an inch of advertising to get an inch of, editorial. And I said, Oh, well, we had no money for the campaign.

So they cut me off then. Joe got them back. But it was, it was really funny going against really all the powers that be. And it was an eye opener. And it was enjoyable. And there was some really negative things around a recent divorce Joe had and some other scandalous things. The FBI was investigating him.

And, actually somebody from the FBI came to me and said, would you like this information? You know, here’s what’s going on. 

Tim: Wow.

Bob: And I said, that’s your job. That’s not mine, which I think set me down the wrong path with the FBI, by the way. But that’s another, that’s a story for a few years later. But I said, that’s your job, not mine.

I’m realizing I’m going to two things. Number one, I just didn’t think it was right. Number two. And I knew they were using me. They wanted to publicize it for their own purposes, not to help me. So I didn’t talk about the impending, indictment of Joe McDade. And I didn’t talk about his personal life either.

And, and the good thing about that was even though I lost, I made a lot of friends and didn’t make any major enemies. So, but he, you know, it was funny the night of the campaign. He said that I ran a negative campaign. Well, yeah, on your job. And I said, I said to the reporter, I said, I could have scorched the earth.

That was my, and they actually quoted me in the paper the next day. I could have scorched the earth and nobody knew what I was talking about. But then…

Olivia: But then it came out.

Bob: To stick me the FBI, like, I think less than a week after the election headlines, Joe McDade target of FBI probe. And he had been raided before the election. His house. 

Tim:Wow. 

Bob: And, so I, I learned how the big boys play politics, which was, it was humorous to me. Everything’s…

Olivia: Humorous on your end. 

Bob: Everything’s funny to me. I, but you know, it was, well, I, I told my kids when I was in all those years I was in prison, I said, listen, I said, just because it’s about you, because it’s you doesn’t mean it’s not funny.

Olivia: That’s a great attitude, actually, you know, not taking yourself too seriously. 

Bob: Well, dear God, how could I? 

Tim: So after that campaign…

Bob: But that made me hate politics. Because I found myself, there was something called one of the issues that was in that race that year was the, the, I’m forgetting what they call them, but like the gap babies, there was people who got, were born in a couple of years in the 1920s were for some statistical reason, getting less social security than other people.

Olivia: Okay.

Bob: And I got asked about it and I pandered. Instead of saying, well, people who make too much money shouldn’t get any social security. You’ve done well for yourself, we’re happy for you, but the system’s going bankrupt. Now this is 1988, you could see it coming. Instead of giving my true answer, I said, well, I’m going to really work hard for the gap.

And I walked out of this thing, it was up in Bradford County. And in, how am I forgetting the town, but you know, this is our age. And I left there and I was physically ill where I had to pull over the side of the road and I go, I just, I just said what she wanted to hear instead of what I believed. And from all of those experiences combined, I said, I, politics is not for me.

I may feel compelled to do it at some point, which I did. When I ran for County Commissioner and got asked to run for Congress again. But, it, it, it made me see that politics was not, uh, this, uh, glorious thing that everybody’s out there trying to do the right thing. 

Tim: Well, so, you know, and that, that makes a good point.

So think about like business, either you got it or you don’t, right? It, you know, whether you’re selling something or you’re making something, it either, it, it, it’s good and it works or it doesn’t. And the consumer will vote for you if it’s good for them and it works for them. 

Bob: Yeah.

Tim: But in politics, all those rules are, you know, it’s, it’s not the best person that wins.

Bob: I talk to people on my radio show all the time. I said, you know, we’ve got a current Democrat party that everything they do is against the people they claim it’s for gas prices, food prices, you know, switch to a battery powered cars, all of everything they’re doing is, but people are wedded to that tradition and what is and politics is very different than the reality that that most business people live today, you know.

Tim: Yeah, I would say like business is more a meritocracy.

And politics, I don’t even know what the hell you would call it. 

Bob: Well look at some of the clowns that are in office now. 

Tim: Oh my god. 

Bob: It’s frightening. Keep it up. I go from the, starts from the president on down here you say. Really?

You gotta be kidding me. 

Tim: Who wiped his ass today?

Bob: By the way, I got Joe Biden toilet paper for Christmas. And I said, I can’t see what it’s doing back there. So I just blow my nose with it. 

Tim: So let’s talk. So, so now that being said about politics. How did you get into the commissioner’s race? 

Bob: Our area needs leadership. And it did very much then. And I saw a county that was headed towards insolvency. There’s no such thing as bankruptcy. You could just raise the taxes. And terrible leadership.

And I said I’m running for commissioner because as a commissioner it’s an executive position. Not like this silly county council down or county council down here. If you win with your partner, you are the legislature. You are the executive at the same time. So, you know, you could actually affect change immediately and constantly during your time.

So I said, I’ll run for commissioner. And I could still even work part time, you know, as a lawyer. I had already, as I told you, disengaging from the radio business, so I just said it’s my duty to do it, and, and, so I, so I, we ran. And my partner, years before, sort of unbeknownst to us before the election started, had been pulled over for a, he wasn’t driving, he was a passenger in his own car the night that one of his children was born, and he had cocaine in his wallet, and so it was a cocaine stop. Now he was with the Democrats at the time, so they covered it up and it didn’t get publicized and whatever, but they always held it in case they needed it and they came out with it that election. So even though it was a very close election for majority minority, we lost by a couple thousand votes and I became the minority commissioner in 2000.

Tim: And then, what was it, 2004?

Bob: 2003 election, 2004, you know, we took office as majority, myself and,  A. J. Munchak. 

Tim: Okay. So you mentioned earlier prison, so talk to us about, not, not so much that experience or even how you got there, but when you came out, right? It’s a new world. You know, when, when you think about technology, think about.

Bob: I’m not an early adapter anyway, you know, or adopter. I’m not, I’m not. So I could always be comfortable a few years behind. I did eight years, five months and come out on a home confinement. I got out, eight years, five months to the day. I had done 11 different prisons, a lot of transportation. They said, wanted me to talk and I didn’t.

And so bouncing you around a lot was one of the, side effects of that and, because I mean, you know, theoretically, I was told I don’t even have to get indicted. So I said, well, if I don’t have to get indicted, why would you indict me? The answer without being answered was because we can. But I saw the, I saw the, the, the fearsome discretion and power of the federal government.

During that whole time, and it reinforced a lot of beliefs I had about government and any accumulation of power because of human nature, not even because of evil or good or whatever, just human nature is to grab power and to assert it. And some people get burned in that process. In some cases, many people get burned.

So it was, I mean, it was a lesson there. And of course, when you’re under the. The jackboot of prison guards and prison officials for all that time. I mean, two o’clock in the morning, cause some jackass was smuggling stuff into the prison. You’re all rousted from bed and sent out in the snow in t-shirts to stand there for an hour and a half.

And this would happen all the time. It was a, it was a crazy, experience. And you were under no control. And I spent, during that prison time, I spent over six months in, solitary confinement. Or what they would call the SHU, it’s Special Housing Unit. So I saw, I was at penitentiary, I was at medium security, I was at low security, I was at camps, I was at Philadelphia, I was at Brooklyn.

So, among those 11 prisons, I sort of saw it all. 

Olivia: On the country tour. 

Bob: A tour of the great northeast.

Tim: So when you came out, I’m assuming, you know, probably money was tight when you came out. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, our show is the Control Your Cash show.

Bob: I was saying on the radio show before this, I said, I’m probably the, I don’t have any cash. So therefore, well, when I did, I was pretty good with it. 

Tim: You were. So the point is, and what our audience wants to hear is…

Bob: Full disclosure.

You were one of my insurance agents so…

Tim: I guess that’s good. 

Bob: The Guardian. 

Tim: So the, the, the point is though. When you had a start over, you got knocked on your butt. How do you, how do you get back up? And what lessons do you learn through that whole process? 

Bob: I mean, but you have to put everything in perspective.

The primary perspective, well to get religious, not, I was going to say to not get religious, well to get religious. Is that the way I look at life is, you know, I’m Catholic. Jesus dies, gives us the opportunity to go to heaven. We can never control our circumstances. It’s how we react to them and deal with them that we succeed, which is going to heaven.

It has not very little to do with what actually happens on the ground here because we’re not in control of it. So, I’m just, I just never thought there was anything to get upset about. I never thought I was on my ass. I was just in places I didn’t want to be. Quite realistic. I didn’t. So I thought to myself, well, how do you behave when you’re confronted with a circumstance?

And I’ve got to put that in perspective. I even said it. As I was being, you know, frog marched around and, and, you know, these perp walks that they made me do three of, they re-indicted me and then re-indicted me. And I said, look, I know people who’ve had children die. Their parents die when they were young and they were dependent upon.

Like I know people with cancer. I know real tragedies. This is a man made tragedy and I’ve got my complicity in that, whether there’s people out to get me or not, whether it was stupid, stupidity, naïveté. And so, you know, why would I ever think this is a tragedy? Why? Because I can’t practice law because I can’t drink scotch.

I, you know, I can’t have a cigar. I mean, really, it was just never to me in my way of thinking there was never anything to be upset about or to whine about. And I had a guy tell me and, you know, you got a lot of advice when you’re going to prison or you, you know, but the one guy said, your children are watching, he said, and by the way, a lot of other people.

And they want to see how you react to this because it’s going to teach them. How to react to the indictment and the press and the newspaper and all of these kinds of things.

Olivia: That’s powerful.

Bob: And so I said, I’m gonna yeah, I’m gonna teach people how to how you should react or at least as best I can and so that was all of those things starting with you know, my my Catholic beliefs were the foundation of anything, not just going to prison, not just being indicted, not just I remember they had this hour long press conference when I got indicted and this hour long thing about how bad of a person I was and all this on the radio, it was live on the radio, so I was driving around in my car, listening to it, because what else am I going to do, you know, I’m driving around Route 81 and whatever, and after it was over, I called my lawyer.

I said, is that all they got?

Look it again, just because it’s happening to you doesn’t mean it’s not funny.

And nothing is life and death, except life and death. And again, so many people that we all know, particularly as we get older, that the tragedies that they’re living through the, you know, whether it’s a relative with Alzheimer’s, you could name the tragedies that outweigh what I was facing. And it just never bothered me, to be honest.

I, it just, whatever. So I, I don’t like when you say someone asked me, he said, geez, you know, you’re always laughing, whatever. I said, well, I’ll be laughing in prison too. By the way, I used to piss a lot of prisoners off when I was laughing. You’re not supposed to be having fun in prison. You’re not supposed to be happy, I guess, whatever.

But, happiness is a decision.

Olivia: Yeah.

Bob: It’s not a reaction to circumstances. And the part of that decision is, I, I, I sent my kids, uh, a couple of letters during my incarceration, or a letter, and, and it had, one of them had, If by Rudyard Kipling, that amazing poem, and another had, Teddy Roosevelt, Man in the Arena, and another was my own personal observation, which is that life, or happiness is a decision, and so, if I look at the whole package, well, you know, I, I, I compared it to a kid in a basketball game and, and, and his teammates are throwing the ball in the stands and the refs are making unfair calls and all this.

And he’s still smiling because he knows he could win. It’s in his control to win, which would be getting to heaven. And so I said, that’s the way you should look at it. Most people, unfortunately. They try to fill the gap of not having that belief. They try to fill that with things. And nobody loves things more than me.

Nobody loves booze and food and a great car and a great house. Nobody loves them more than me. But they’re not the be all, the end all. They’re good things, but they’re not the altar to worship on. And people try to fill that gap that they don’t have because they don’t have a core. I believe faith in God, to rely on.

And so, well, what’ll make me feel better now? Is it, is it sex? Is it, is it drugs? Is it money? Is it a car? Is it a nightclub? And it’s all just silliness. 

Olivia: Yeah, you could have all the things and still not be happy. It’s that conscious decision to be happy and not be victimized by circumstances. That really is going to make the difference at the end of the day. 

Bob: You said it well. And at the end of every day. 

Olivia: Yeah.

Bob: Not just the day. 

Tim: It’s true. 

Olivia: Yeah. 

Tim: It’s so, it’s so true and you, and you think about… 

Bob: You have to internalize it too. 

Tim: Yeah. 

Bob: So that it’s, and I, I think I did before prison. 

Olivia: It sounds like it.

Bob: But prison, like it let you prison sort of let you, be say, you know…

Olivia: Be with yourself. 

Bob: I was sort of right about that.

Olivia: Yeah. 

Bob: You know? Yeah. That is the right way to approach things and, so I got a lot of verification of what I believed going in. And during the process. And, the other thing I did is I sort of looked at it as part, which I do life in general, but part of me is observing everything that I’m in. I’m in a, you know, we’re all in a documentary, which we’re the camera.

And, so you’re part observer, part participant and that helps you watch what you’re doing as you’re doing it. And it’s, it’s sort of fun. 

Olivia: That’s interesting. Where’d you get that idea? I mean, cause I mean, in a, in a sense it’s true. 

Tim: It is true

Olivia: I know, but like, I’ve never, I…

Bob: I can’t say it’s, I can’t say it’s, it is original to me.

I can’t say it’s just my idea, but that’s the way I look at life. 

Olivia: Yeah. That’s pretty cool.

Tim: It’s a great perspective, and I think if you use that. 

Bob: But it’s a documentary most people don’t want to watch. 

Tim: Or sometimes it’s cringeworthy for sure. 

Bob: Oh man, I had a lot of cringeworthy.

Tim: So talk to us about how you, you know, once you got out, you came and, you know, what’d you do for, like…

Bob: Did you ever hear someone say, and I know I told my kids. If I had to start at zero, if I had to start at McDonald’s, I think I’d work my way up and I’m sort of a lazy type. So maybe I’d only be the hamburger flipper, but, you know, there’s nothing wrong with starting at zero.

I had no debt either. So it was sort of like…

Olivia: An absolute zero.

Bob: Well, I had debt to the federal government. They’re still torturing me, but that’s another story. But, but, I, I looked at it as a challenge and an opportunity and a clean slate and, I mean, there’s nothing to be afraid of I mean, if I, if I need a meal, I could go to my mother’s house, you know, I’m not going to starve on the street.

Tim: Who cooks better than mom? 

Even if she didn’t cook well, I’m going to eat. I mean, this is not existential. None of this is. So. I just didn’t think there was anything to worry about because you have zero particularly wouldn’t, and my family was great. They stuck by me tons of friends visit, tons of family visit, and and so and and tons, tons writing, tons sending messages, so I mean I always knew that I had a lot of friends out there and that it was a wonderful life still and so, starting over again…

Olivia: You ended up back in radio.

Bob: Yeah.

Olivia: Which is ironic.

Bob: Because I was on home confinement for 13 months. And so my family, the last thing they wanted me to do was be in the media again, because I’m not going to not say what I think. So they’re like, Oh, we’re going to do this again. And I applied for a student teaching jobs. Which many of them are controlled by Kelly services.

So I went three days filling out all these insane things. And there’s nothing I hate more than filling out forms on a computer, but I do, I do it. And then they even had incentives if you were a felon, but they figured they didn’t want the headache of some school answering to the media as to why I was there teaching as this horrible criminal.

And so they said, guess what? You can’t do it. And then you can’t work for your family. You can’t work for yourself and you couldn’t do any job on home confinement where you didn’t just go from your home, to the job, and then back. There was no flexibility on that whatsoever. So a number of friends had reached out.

Oh, would you like to do sales for us? Would you like to do sales management? Would you like to run this company? And I couldn’t do it because I could only go to the office and home. And so I finally realized I’m going to have to do, I’d thought about it in prison quite a bit too. I’m going to have to do a radio show.

And I called WILK and agreed. Frank Andrews was actually on the air in the afternoon. He wanted to do an interview and they said, well, why don’t you come on and do a, you know, guest host the Morning Show one day. And I did, I got permission. Then I did. And then they said, well, how about if you substitute every, you know, every so often when somebody’s sick or vacation or whatever.

So I did that for a little while. And then after a few months, so April of what, 21, I guess, they offered me a job. And so I took it and I’ve, so we’re negotiating the contract. They’ve been great down there too. I’m negotiating the contract with the general manager. And I forget what he asked me and I said, well, right.

What am I going to tell you? I have an ankle bracelet. How am I going to, I’m going to tell you what I’m going to do. So, so I, I got into, you know, to the radio gig and, uh, it is not about. Me getting back at anybody. I don’t see, I don’t see it that way. I have a lot of people screwed me. I mean, there’s no doubt about that, but that’s just not, you can’t, I don’t know you, I can’t live my life focused or even paying attention to that because there’ll always be people trying to screw me.

And it’s not, by the way, I, I always talk about things like racism and these other issues that they try to isolate to, to this category. No. People just like to keep other people down.

Tim: Yeah

Bob: It has nothing to do with race. It has nothing to do with anything except, Oh, this guy might be getting ahead. Let’s screw him.

I mean, it’s just, so that’s always going to be a condition of life. It’s always going to be a factor of life. And, so the show is about what I believe the, incredibly wrong track the country is on. And it’s hopefully educational, hopefully do it in a fun way, in a funny way, an entertaining way.

But it’s, it’s a passion project, I guess you’d say, because it’s not a lot of money. It’s just, you know, a living wage.

Olivia: Nice.

Tim: So, now how, how many years are you doing that now, Bob?

Bob: Full time. I started, the it was the Monday after Easter in 2021. So like April 5th, I think I can’t remember the specific date, but yeah.

Tim: Yeah. And you know, I’ve listened to many, many episodes and I’ve actually called in a couple of times and I thought, I figured you recognize my voice.

Bob: I didn’t know. 

Tim: No, really? 

Bob: No, I would have called you out. 

Tim: So a couple of times I called in, but, I mean, you got a really engaged audience and, and, you know, I know that… 

Bob: It’s enjoyable.

You know, it’s, it’s like hanging around and some of them don’t even like me, you know, the people listening, they’ll always send him, you know, I, I remember the one time when we start, when I, particularly when I started doing it, they would say, Oh yeah, great. Coming from an ex-convict. And I was like, well, let’s get something clear here.

I tried to have my conviction overturned and failed. I’m a convict. I would be an ex-convict if I got my conviction overturned. But I’m not. So I mean…

Olivia: If you’re going to insult me, do it formally. 

Bob: Yeah, do it accurately. Let’s use the English language the way it’s supposed to be. But, I don’t duck that. I’m not ashamed of it, frankly.

That part of my life was very educational, whether I liked it or not. And, and so I hope the shoe, the show is about truth, fact, and reality, which a lot of people who lead us don’t see and don’t want to see for their own benefit or, or comfort or whatever. And, so, I mean I get to do that every day and people, they are very responsive.

Positive and negative, but it doesn’t matter to me and they’re very involved and they’re enjoying themselves and they’re laughing and they’re fired up and all that kind of thing. I say when I did the television show, which was nonpolitical and I enjoy that and I may go back to that, but the radio show, I said, if, if, I get a tear to my eye at least once during the show, if I get, worked up in a lather at least once during the show, and if I laugh once during the show, I know that it was a pretty good show.

Tim: Jim Valvano. 

Bob: Does he say that? 

Tim: Well, he said in his  ESPY speech. 

Bob: Oh. 

Tim: If, if you cry once a day, if you laugh once a day, and think once a day, you’ve had a full day. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Tim: And, uh…

Bob: That’s great. 

Tim: Yeah. 

Bob: And it’s, you know, it’s how I approach the show. I know, I feel like I accomplished something that day and we do a veterans tribute, which is very important to me.

In fact, that’s the reason I continued to do the show. Many times it’s just off the obituaries of veterans who’ve passed away, but very often it’s, you know, families and others who I encourage, like, you know, send me information on your family member. I don’t care. It was peacetime. I don’t care if they were a war hero.

And, and so you get to do that and you get to publicize businesses that you could really believe in. You get to publicize events that you are excited about for other people. And, it’s, it’s a great, platform and they let me say anything I want. I’m sure there’s a point at which they’d fire me, but I don’t…

Olivia: I haven’t reached it yet.

Bob: I haven’t held. Well, I haven’t held back either. So.

Tim: Right. But, you know, Bob, knowing you…

Bob: Well, I say, the other part is, this is the truth of it, it beats working. I’ve seen people work. I know what they do. 

Tim: Right. 

Bob: Guys in construction and, I mean, they really, they, people in factories, they actually work. This is not work.

Tim: Isn’t that great? Now, when you think about that, so first, well, two things. Number one, it’s not work. I’ve never, ever known you to hold back, so that’s just not going to happen. But number two, and I’ve told my kids this over and over throughout their lives, is find out, like, figure out something you love to do, find a way to get paid for it, and you’ll never have to work a day in your life. And seriously, it seems like you’ve found that.

Bob: Some of that’s true. Well, I mean. I like to get paid. So that’s why I did the TV show and that worked out well. But it ran its course with channel 16. So now we’re looking at other options, but, I say, I’m starting to say we, if I start referring to myself in the third person, just smash me in the head, would you with this skull over here.

Looking at other options to bring the TV show back, cause that was designed to be all positive and, and to, to bring people together and, about great things that are happening and really interesting people that are happening. I do that on the TV, the radio show, but people are afraid of the political side of it.

Cause this area is so Democrat and, and for whatever reason, I always find myself going after the majority and so, you know, they’re afraid to sometimes to do things on the show because it is so opinionated and, but I mean, I don’t care what your politics is, if you’re doing something interesting or if you’re a charity, so there’s a lot of interaction on that front, which is again, as I said earlier, a fun part of the show.

Olivia: So, so what is your TV show about?

Bob: The TV show, we, we interviewed everybody from Bo Dietl with his movie projects. We had, uh, like maybe one of the, Steve Vacendak, who was one of the greatest basketball players from this area. We had people who ran Goodwill Industries and St. Joseph Center. And they’re all on all of the episodes of war heroes, combat veterans of Korean War, World War Two.

Really an interesting montage of people, a sports writer at age is like mid nineties. Now we had a lot of interesting guests. It was fun to do and it was, and it was nonpolitical. Which I liked too. I mean, I said, I could listen to myself talking about politics for five days, not six. And it was very popular.

We were lucky to have a position right out of, after the great show, Pennsylvania Outdoor Life. And so we had a lot of eyeballs watching, and it had a lot of reach, and so it was very enjoyable. It was very enjoyable. 

Olivia: Awesome. And all of those are available on YouTube.

Bob: On YouTube. Under the Bob Codaro Show on TV.

Olivia: Okay. 

Bob: Yeah, we’re gonna, we’ll come back with, I’m sure I’ll come back with some TV. I’ve had, been having discussions about it. 

Olivia: Yeah, it’s in the works. 

Bob: Yeah. 

Tim: Well, it seems like you, you’ve always had an affinity for media. Just I don’t know, just like since I’ve known you, you seem to have an affinity for media and it seems like you’re back where you belong.

Bob: Maybe so. Maybe so. And it’s much better than owning. I don’t have to make payroll every Friday, they do it. I remember like going up to, I remember this one time we’re, we’re going up to, I had to make payroll and I used to call, uh, my friend X.E. McAndrew, we lost unfortunately John McAndrew and I would call him up on Thursday nights and go, X, payroll tomorrow.

He goes, eh, we’ll get it done somehow. And so I, at one time driving with one of my salesmen. And, and you can’t look desperate to your advertisers, but I go, my, my old guy, my old buddy, Ed Connick, I go, Ed, I really need the money for Friday. We drive up to the Ray Price and they had a car dealership on Mount Pocono and he gave us the money.

It was nice of him. It really was. He didn’t have to pay because you have 60, 90 days to pay radio and media. And he paid us ahead of time and I made payroll that day, that week. 

Tim: Wow. But, you know, that’s the great thing about, you know, about business though is the wonderful people you meet and the, and, and the impact that you could have.

Bob: I think about, about anything your interactions are. 

Tim: True. 

Bob: And it’s easier to sit at home, which I frankly prefer to do, but you would have missed so much. 

Olivia: Mhmm.

Tim: Exactly. 

Bob: Whether it’s prison or politics. Uh, although I, I said. I would, uh, rely on the 1200 prisoners I’m with out at Allenwood inside the fence. More than 1200 people in politics any day.

So true. Because there, there were real consequences for lying and screwing somebody in prison, there are no consequences in politics. 

Olivia: That’s a great point. 

Tim: That’s great. 

Bob: I would, I would think of myself, boy, if they tried that in here,

I wouldn’t even have to do anything. 

Olivia: Well, Bob, this has been a great show as, as promised, you delivered and we appreciate you so much for, for joining us today and our audience, I’m sure, appreciates it also your stories and very captivating.

So tell them how they could, find you, you know, when we talked about the YouTube channel and the radio, how could they, how could they get in front of you? 

Bob: To see the, I think we have 45 to 48 editions of the television show. It’s under the Bob Cordaro show on TV. And you can see other, if you go to YouTube, you’re going to see other stuff that interviews with Joe Snedeker, that kind of thing that you’ll, so there’s, there’s that stuff.

And then on, I’m on WILK news radio. You go to WILK news radio.com. If you don’t get the signal 103.1FM and 910 and 980AM, uh, every day, nine to noon. And, it’s, I, I can be found,

Tim: Bob. I can’t tell you how good it was. Number one to see you. 

Bob: It was great talking to you. I said, I don’t know if this is for the broadcast or not, but I mean, I, I met him when he was getting recruited at the University of Rochester to play football and we’ve been fast friends ever since I, like, immediate, immediate, he was such a good teddy bear of a guy.

And I love your dad. I do. It was like we were talking the other day. The first time after 15, 18, 20 years, whatever. 

Tim: Yeah. 

Bob: It was like we had just spoken the day before. 

Olivia: Oh, that’s the best. 

Tim: Exactly. That’s the best, right? So there’s people that I haven’t seen since high school. And I saw a really good friend, Eddie Rubel.

He, he played football with us in high school and, he moved out to Colorado. I haven’t seen Eddie in 40 years and we saw him this summer and it was like, wow, we just picked it right up, you know? 

Bob: Yeah, that is nice. 

Tim: Yeah. So, Bob, thanks so much for being with, being here as our guest, and I’m sure our audience got a lot out of it because I did.

And I know it was…

Bob: Who is the audience? 

Olivia: We’re talking to business owners all across the country.

Bob: Oh okay, neat, neat. Yeah. That’s good. Well, it’s neat that you do this and extend beyond your, your normal, business modes, even if it doesn’t necessarily assist with business. But it’s, it’s, it’s important that you do this.

This is great. 

Olivia: Yeah. We, we aim to add value to our audience and, and spread knowledge from other business owners and professionals. And. Convicts. 

Bob: You know, I, you give them an inch, they take a yard. 

Tim: I know, how about that?

Bob: Do you see this, do you see this? That’s my line. It’s like I tell my producers on the radio show I tell…

Olivia: Well its accurate I heard.

Bob: I tell the jokes around here, okay? 

Tim: That’s right. 

Bob: I’m the one with the lines. Not you. 

Olivia: I’m back in my place.

Tim: There you go. He liked you better when you didn’t say anything. 

Bob: No. You know what? Yeah. If you have a good line, use it as long as you’re willing to accept the consequences. 

Tim: There you go. 

Olivia: Words to live by. Thank you so much again, Bob, for joining us.

Bob: Thank you. Pleasure to see you guys and be with you.