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Olivia: Hi, welcome to The Control Your Cash Podcast. I’m Olivia Kirk

Tim: And I’m Tim Yurek and we are here with Joey Mure.

Joey: Hey, hey, welcome. I’m so glad to be here.

Tim: Joey is from Wealth Without Wall Street. They’re located in Birmingham, Alabama, and they, they are promoting their new book creatively entitled Wealth Without Wall Street.

Joey: Hey, Tim, that’s what you get when you have two rednecks from Alabama. We just pick one name and we stick to it. Everything’s named Wealth Without Wall Street. In fact, um, my youngest child is, is named Wealth Without Wall Street. So, you know, that’s, that’s just how we roll.

Tim: I thought, I thought, well, I’m sure your oldest child is named Joey.

Joey: If I had, if I had a boy, it probably would be, uh, I got five girls. So, you know, it wasn’t in the cards.

Tim: There you go. So, Joey, tell us a little bit about your journey. You know, when, how you met up with Russ and how you sort of got captivated with this concept.

Joey: Yeah, I’ll tell you that, um, I think I’m on the journey that everybody is at some point in their career, their life is. I was the guy that grew up thinking you have to go study hard, go to college, get a good job, work there until you quote unquote retire. And man, just and hope that the the Wall Street game takes care of you in, in this accumulation model, like just stack up enough cash that one day it eventually takes care of you in retirement. And here I was, I was in the mortgage business and making great money. In fact, you know, more than I actually thought I would be making in my late twenties. And I looked up and I realized that I really didn’t feel any closer to this, like financial security, financial stability, financial, you know, independence, if you will, even though I was making well over $300,000 a year.

And I was like, something’s not quite right about this. You know, I’m putting money away into this thing, this 401k, everybody’s telling me that you’re supposed to do. I’m getting a match from Wells Fargo and this is, you know, it seems good, but I don’t feel like this is getting me any closer to the goal.

And in fact, I was actually getting farther from it because here I was a young family. I was working all the time, 60, 70 hours a week just to keep this commission, um, you know, hamster wheel going. And I was like, something, there’s something wrong with this. I’m at the beach and my kids are down there and I’m up here taking phone calls and doing pre-approval letters for the realtors that I work with.

And this doesn’t make sense to me, but I didn’t have an answer for what, how to, how to solve it until, as you mentioned, Russ, my business partner, we were, we were good friends at church. He handed me this book one day and he said, Hey, I want you to read this. I’m going to start referring you clients for mortgage, and I want you to understand what they understand.

And so here, read this book. And, and I did. And when I read it, it was like an aha moment. It was like, ah, this is what’s been the thing I’ve been looking for, right? The, the solution to the problem. And now we can get into more of that if you want, but that was really the light-bulb moment. And it took me to say, I need to control my finances.

And even further, I need to turn that into passive income so that I can buy the time back to be with my young family and to, to have this financial freedom that we talked about.

Tim: Well, you know, it’s, it’s really interesting that you felt that there was something missing. You just couldn’t put your finger on it. And you know, it’s, it’s, it’s amazing that that Wall Street institution wants you to trust everything to them. And then they act like there’s, they have this mysterious mystical power that only they know. And if you, if you have the audacity to ask them a question, they talk down to you like you’re a stupid SOB. And, and I find the whole, the whole process insulting. But, that’s what, that’s what we are trained to do. And if you do anything outside of that model, you’re a heretic.

Joey: A hundred percent. Yeah, the, the name Wealth Without Wall Street flies in the face of everybody’s like, wait a minute, there’s something other than that? Like, I just assumed that was the only thing. And to your point, um, you know, Wall Street has made it out to be that it’s so complex. You would have to go to school for years and get all of these various, um, designations and licenses and all this before you could ever understand how to do investing on your own.

And I bought that. I, I literally was like, well, I don’t want to mess things up. I don’t want to, you know, stick my head, uh, where it’s not supposed to be. And And lo and behold, deals were passing me up left and right because all of my money was locked up in this Wall Street casino. And I lost money in 2008. I lost money in years after that. And I thought this is, this doesn’t make any sense, but I don’t know what else to do. And, and I, like I said, uh, I give Russ a hard time on our podcast and YouTube channel and all this stuff, so. But I’m really grateful that he actually charged me $20 to read the book. And, uh, cause if he didn’t, I probably wouldn’t have read it and I wouldn’t be where I am today.

Olivia: Yeah, it’s funny how, you know, a lot of people who come to us, some of them don’t realize that there’s a problem. And that’s a lot about, like, that’s a lot of what we do is show them the problems that aren’t, that are there now, but also what those problems look like down the road, right? Because a lot of times it’s, it’s too late by the time you realize that, hey, this isn’t working.

This doesn’t feel right. Um, I don’t have any access to money and I’m making all this money. I’m saving all this money, but everything’s slipping through my hands. So, you know, the fact that, um, Russ came to you with that solution, you recognize the problem and then you actually took action on it is, is a really big deal, right?

Joey: Yeah, no doubt. And it was one of those things that I think I liken, um, what you guys do, what we talk about on our show, um, as like being at one end of a tunnel. And, and like at the very beginning, you can see that there’s like a light, you know, like down there. If you, if you ever stood in a tunnel at one end and you’re looking at the other, you see a very small opening and you’re like, okay, there’s something there and I’m going to just do what I can.

And I mean, you’ve probably seen this a million times people implement this infinite banking concept. That’s what we’re talking about at a small level to begin with. They just start doing maybe, you know, my first policy was $2,000 a month. And I thought that’s the only amount I could ever put into this.

Like that’s all that I have access, you know, left over to do. And then as you start walking down that tunnel, you start to see the same opening just gets bigger. And you start to see the picture that was always there, but now it’s in bit in a better perspective and I can see a whole lot more. And so then, you know, I started two, three, four, I’m up to like 20 something policies with my family and we’re more than 10 X what we had done to begin with.

But that’s because it, the vision starts to come into clarity. You start to see controlling my cash is tremendous. Like this puts me in the catbird seat for deals that I never would have gotten access to before. Um, I just did a deal less than 30 days ago that somebody was needing a bridge loan for 30 days and in that deal I had to come up with just shy of $200,000 to help them bridge the gap on this massive apartment funding deal.

And for that, they gave me 2% for the for that one month on that money and a half a percent in the overall project of the apartment complex in perpetuity. Do you think I could get a deal even closer to that in my 401k? Not a chance. So controlling your cash is just an amazing place to be. So I don’t know if that helps you.

I’m just trying to give you like my, my journey is, I mean, it started with that small picture and now it’s in full, full view.

Tim: And it’s, it’s so common to when that happens, because, you know, like Nelson used to always tell me, he said, Tim, when you have access to capital, opportunities we’ll find you. And there is no, there is nothing that I’ve experienced in my life with, with more veracity than that statement, because when you don’t have money, there’s opportunities flying past you.

You don’t even, you don’t even know they’re happening, but then all of a sudden you have access to capital and the good that the really good deals start coming your way. And it happens, they happen. Because you have access to capital. And one of the things that I found and the amazing thing is not so much the deals you take advantage of, but the deals you pass up because they’re just not good enough. And when, when you were cash strapped, so to speak. You would have jumped at those opportunities. And now you get to pick and choose and say, I don’t know if that’s where I want to put my capital at this point.

Joey: A hundred percent. Yeah. We talk about the book that we were referencing is Become Your Own Banker. And there’s nothing more true than to think about that position. A banker underwrites each deal according to whatever they determine is worth the use of their capital, right? And, and they turn down tons of deals that don’t meet the criteria.

And that’s what you’ve done is you’ve put yourself in that position. And, uh, we talk about this, you know, in our, our book and in our, our training, our, our coaching that you have to get yourself around deals, because if you only see one or two, they all look good. But if you see a hundred, you start to see those first two that you saw, those are terrible in comparison.

It’s always compared to what, right? And, and so man becoming an investor is a super important process. You know, step in this process and you can’t do it just by doing it as a hobby every once in a while.

Olivia: And it’s funny, Joey, the whole Wall Street model aims like if you’re following that model, right? If you were saving in your 401k, saving in traditional investments, even if they’re non-qualified, the last thing anyone wants to let you do is access that money. You know, whether it’s qualified or non-qualified, it seems like it’s very difficult to get your hands on that money, so even if you are saving in those vehicles and you do have access, it’s not as easy as, okay, I have this cash available, I have this opportunity, do I want to do it? But there’s nothing standing in your way to take those next steps, which is something that I don’t think a lot of people realize, right?

So, when you buy into this model, and you put all your cash flow towards it. It makes it very difficult for you to take advantage and educate yourself on other investment opportunities because you, you believe that the Wall Street model is the right one.

Joey: Yeah totally, and I want to point something out that you didn’t say directly, but I’ll, I’ll point it out. You know we believe that the absolute answer to financial freedom is when your passive income exceeds your monthly expenses. Right. So if this is the first time you’ve heard us talking about this, it’s great.

Just think about it for a second. If your monthly expenses, I’m just going to use an arbitrary number, $10,000 a month, and you have $10,000 a month that hits your bank account, ACH, in your mailbox, wherever the location is, I don’t care, but it comes to you without you actively having to go and produce it.

It’s literally passively put into your account. If you pull up the app on your phone that says calendar, at that point, as soon as that happens, your calendar is completely open. Nobody is dictating to you what’s on it. You’re getting to choose what gets put on there, who you spend time with, how long, what location that you’re spending the time with them and in what way you’re investing your gifts and abilities that God’s provided for you.

It is all up to you at that point. You’re at your complete potential as far as what you can do to impact this world. So let me ask you a question. Why do you think Wall Street encourages us to accumulate money into an account over 20, 30, 40, 50 years and yet they do not choose to be paid in a similar fashion? How does Wall Street get paid? They get paid on cashflow when, 30 years from now, or today? Every month, whether you make money or not, they’re going to take a management fee. They’re going to take all kind of junk fees, whatever it is. And it’s going to be percentage based on your account value. Again, whether it went up or down and they get paid today. Who do you think is creating financial freedom? Are they creating it for you or for themselves? That, and so I just want to, like, I’m not trying to just like completely pooh-pooh Wall Street because my name and my company’s Wealth Without Wall Street. I’m just saying, think like the Wall Street guys and do what they’re doing, not do what they say to do.

And, and that will lead you to actual financial success, financial freedom that we talked about in our book and in our podcasts and everything else.

Tim: Yeah. So, it’s more, it’s it’s more a thing of do as they do, not as they say.

Joey: A hundred percent. I mean, we’ve, we’ve talked about how banks think. They try to encourage you to get what the lowest interest rate, right? Hey, you should get the lowest interest rate. But meanwhile, that means that they’re telling you to pay something back over the shortest amount of time. Well, why did they do that?

Instead of, so just as example, they tell you to do a 15 year mortgage at a lower interest rate. They’re encouraging you to do it at that lower interest rate. Why? Because they get more of your dollars in repayment today than stretching it out over 30 years. Well, why is that? Because they want your cash flow today.

They’re trying to create cash flow, not accumulate. So in both cases, do as they do, not as they say.

Tim: Yeah, that’s a great point, Joey because when you think about it, they take our eye off the ball as to what’s really important by saying, hey, you’re gonna pay more interest with a thirty year mortgage than you will on a fifteen where, you know, you’re gonna pay seven and a half percent on a thirty versus six uh six and a half percent on a 15. Why do they incentivize us to take the lower, you know, the lower interest rate? Because they’re getting a greater chunk of our monthly cash flow. So the name of the game is cash flow, not interest rate, but they take our eye off the ball by saying, hey, this is the interest rate. We can get you from seven and a half to six and a half, but you got to do it on a 15 year amortization rather than a 30.

The reason they do that is because it’s always about and always has been about cash flow, not interest rate.

Joey: Absolutely. And the faster that you, I mean, the funny thing is we’re sitting here talking about Nelson. And if you don’t know who we’re talking about, Nelson Nash. The founder of the infinite banking concept, um, a personal mentor to Tim and I, and Russ, as we’re talking about, um, the author of Becoming Your Own Banker, what did he say?

He said, if you know what’s going on, you’ll know what to do. And this is a perfect example of that. As soon as you understand that banks, Wall Street, big corporations, you name it, they run off of cash flow and they create freedom for themselves through cash flow you’ll know that that’s what you have to do. Again, it’s not that I want to you know victimize or you know make make banks and Wall Street the the big evil villain I’m just saying they’re pretty dang smart, like let’s start doing what they’re doing and then we’ll see and not what they say to do.

So anyways, just giving Nelson another plug there because he was a brilliant man.

Tim: Oh, absolutely. And you know, the, the impact that he has had over his life and beyond because of people like us. Who are disciples of his, uh, is just incredible. And the impact that we’re able to have with our clients by literally shining light on the areas that need, need to be exposed, uh, is just incredible.

Joey: Totally.

Tim: So tell us a little bit about, about the book. I know in the pre-call you had, you had mentioned that it’s, it was a longer project than you had anticipated. You know, that, that’s something else, you know, talk, talk about the book journey, Joey.

Joey: Well, I’ll tell you, um, you know, I think at a certain point you decide that we, we do podcasts, we do YouTube videos, we do social media stuff, which by the way, uh, I’m terrible at that stuff, but we decide there are people that create or like they take in content in different modes and we don’t have a written, a really strong written mode that people can kind of consume what we’re, what we’re about. So we, why not write a book? And so you got two rednecks in Alabama and you say, neither of us are really strong writers. Let’s hire a company that actually will help us do that and we’ll just be interviewed by them and they’ll ghostwrite it and we’ll just make sure that it all works out. That works great until the company that you that you hired to ghostwrite it goes bankrupt. I do not recommend that I would just prefer not to hire a company that goes bankrupt in the middle of your project. Um, cause it just, it causes delays as you can imagine. Um, and the other part of it is you always have to, whether someone’s writing it for you or not, you always have to set aside time to read what’s been written.

And if it’s always the last thing on your list of to do’s, it just gets pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed. And just saying that these are the real life challenges of writing a book. Um, but I’m grateful that it’s there because now it, like I said, it gives people, if you want to, you want to take seven years of a podcast, our journey and looking in the rear view mirror and saying, how did we get to over $50,000 a month in passive income?

How did we get to this point of financial freedom? Well, there’s a lot of things that we could summarize instead of you going and listen to all seven years of our podcast and put it in a book and say, this is the path. The three main steps that it takes to become financially free. We’re going to give you those in a written linear kind of fashion and provide resources to help you along the way that if I could sum up the book is exactly what it is.

It’s your kind of roadmap. To cut through some of the, you know, all the many years of doing this and just say, I can read it in, you know, two days.

Tim: That, that’s an awesome tool to have. Uh, you know, certainly having that roadmap could cut out a lot of heartache, a lot of, uh, distress.

Olivia: Add some years back to your life, for sure.

Joey: Absolutely. And I, and I’ll tell you, we, it wasn’t really clear to us until we started writing the book. It helped us to organize our own thoughts, which I think was super helpful. But you know, we started with the idea that you’re on a destination to get to financial freedom, right? If you, if you pull up your phone right now and you have your GPS, I don’t know about you, but you know, I came up in the, the years with MapQuest, you know, the written document that tells you where to turn and all this stuff.

And if you were trying to print it out, it never printed your, your ink would run out and you’re like, oh man, I don’t know where to go. This last page is not printed. Well, now you guys have it so much better. You just pull up your phone and it tells you the fastest way to get from where you’re at to where you want to go.

And, and that’s your GPS. That’s your, and so that’s what we base this whole book on is what is your GPS to get to financial freedom? And it’s your goal, your plan, and your support with those three components, you can get there and we break down each one of them to help you understand. First of all, where are you at right now?

Because if you don’t know where you’re at right now, it doesn’t really matter where you’re headed. You, you don’t know where the next, the next step, and we call it the right next thing to help you get to that end destination. So, um, I’m happy to break down each one of those goal plan supports, but I just want to let you know that that’s kind of the, the backbone of the book that helps give you, um, you know, each step along the way.

Tim: Well, that’s tremendous. Let’s, let’s, let’s go in. Let’s dive into that, Joey. So let’s, let’s break down the, the, the goal, the plan, the support.

Joey: Great. Well, I think with any goal, the picture is again, it’s, it’s knowing where you’re at today and then where you’re headed. And so we, we use a tool called the financial passport. It’s a course that we built over a couple of years that helps you to dream. And I don’t know about you, but as adults, as kids, we could dream all day, right?

We could tell you like my, you know, my five year old wants to be a ballerina. My nine year old, I’m not certain at one point she said she wanted to be a comedian, which she actually called chameleon, but she meant comedian, but that was really cute to hear. But you know, we all have dreams when we’re little, we get older and I feel like we kind of shut that part of our brain off because we just get into the, like the throes of what I have to do.

I have all this responsibility now. I have to do this. I have to do that. It’s not, I wish I were doing this or I could do that. And so, we find that it’s super important to use this passport challenge to help people figure out, man, when I’m financially free, I want to be this person. Like, who do I want to be?

What do I want to do? And what will I have? So be, do, have is in that passport challenge. And it’s amazing if people will actually take us up on this and walk through this, they can start to get really clear financial freedom. What does it look like for them? And then only then if they map that out, they can even put pictures to it.

It’s almost like a vision board that we walk people through. Then they know how to then take their finances and start to organize them. That’s where the plan comes in, right? If you under the plan, everything looks like a good idea until you have a goal. Right? So I’ll tell you one of the funny things that we point out, and we’ve already kind of talked about it today on the show, is how 401ks qualified plans are the worst vehicles to get to financial freedom.

Now, I’m not saying that they’re the worst vehicles to invest or to accumulate or whatever, but to get to financial freedom, if that’s your destination, 401ks are the worst. Because why? Because they require you to put money in and not touch them until you’re in your 60s. Well, if you’re 25, you’re 35, you’re 45 even, and you say, I want to be financially free in the next five years, it doesn’t matter how much money you have in that 401k, that money is not getting you closer to that goal.

In fact, it’s keeping you further from it. And it’s actually putting you at a disadvantage, even though you’re saying, I’m, but I get a, I get a free match, Joey. That’s like a, that’s free money. Well, it’s free money for when, for when you’re in your sixties, well, that’s not going to help you get there today.

So we’re not talking about rate of return. We’re not talking about. The money that gets put in there or the tax, you know, I don’t have to pay tax on it today. They’re the worst for creating cashflow today. And so anyways, there’s a lot more points under the plan that we talk about your budget. We talk about debt freedom, not being financial freedom.

There’s all sorts of things. But as you get that goal, you start to put your, your money to supporting that goal into the plan. And then the, and that’s where we talk about infinite banking. Obviously we’re talking about controlling the cash that’s under the plan step. And then the support is that last step.

And there’s a few pieces under support, knowing what sort of investor you are. We’ve, we designed an investor DNA profile. That tells you, Hey, if you’re on the DISC personality profile, if you’re a D I S or C, what sort of investments would align with you as a, as a personality and which ones you should focus on, which ones you shouldn’t focus on because they’re going to help you get to financial freedom as fast as possible if you’re aligned with them.

We talk about what sort of, um, hands on options for passive income, hands off options. And then finally, what sort of support system do you need to get to your goal? And it could be coaches, mentors, community. It could be actually meeting with somebody that is helping you along the way one on one. Or in a group or mastermind setting, all those things are important because I can tell you, as we’ve been talking today, you go sit around your water cooler and you start talking about how bad 401ks are, you’re not going to get met with a whole lot of support. In fact, they’re going to say, Tim, you’re crazy. Uh, you’d be dumb to stop putting money in a 401k because you’re getting this free match and this and that and the other thing. And you’re going to get met with a lot of like, this is, this is a bad idea Tim, where are you getting this bad advice? And they will take you off course because they’re not thinking the way you’re thinking.

They’re thinking retirement accumulation. They’re not talking about financial freedom today.

Tim: And you know, Joey, so many good points there that I want to sort of unpack. Number one, understanding what your goals and objectives are first. And if your goal and goals and objectives are to be financially free today, we’re not saying, or you’re not saying that 401ks are bad. They’re just not in alignment with your goals and objectives. And I want to share a story. Uh, I’ve, I’ve worked in the recent past with a business owner and she had purchased rental real estate through her 401k and all of the tax benefits are tied up in the 401k, all of the cashflow, the passive income flows back into the 401k. So she’s literally managing this taking time out of her day per month to manage this property and receives exactly zero benefits. No tax, no, no current tax benefits, no pass through or passive income, none of that. And all it is is a headache for her. And then because of the restrictions on that account. She can’t refinance. She can’t sell it to a relative. So, the only way out is to sell the property, which she doesn’t want to do. And the point is, this, that whole concept is not taking her closer to where, you know, what her goals and objectives are, which is financial freedom today. And so I love the way you set that up and explain that because you really have to align your goals and objectives with the strategies you’re using to get there. And that is, that is something that I find that is the antithesis of the Wall Street model. You know, their, their solution to everything is more stocks, bonds, and money markets or mutual funds. And that’s not necessarily bad, but what are you trying to accomplish? That’s where it could be bad.

Joey: And to your point earlier, they will take you off course by focusing on the things that are not getting you closer to your goals. Well, oh, well, you know, Tim, you don’t want to, you don’t want to get rid of this, um, account. I mean, do you, did you not see what we made in that account last quarter, the rate of return, right?

Or, or the tax benefit or whatever the case is. Those things are good things. They’re not the ultimate thing that is. So you go in there ready to pull the plug on something and say, this is not fitting my, my goal to get to financial freedom and they get you focused on this over here And take your eye off of this is what I’m actually trying to accomplish.

Right? So it’s, uh, yeah, you gotta control your cash, you gotta you gotta align things to get you, uh on the right path and man stay the course.

Olivia: Absolutely. And I feel like there was a trend there of alignment all through all through what you were saying, Joey, you know, from the alignment with your goals all the way through the alignment with the support and community that you surround yourself with. And I think that’s so important to surround yourself with people who you want to be like, right?

So do you want to be like the people around the water cooler or do you want to be? Like the people who are actually experiencing financial freedom, who could lift you up, support you, and who you could learn from, right? So you don’t have to make the same mistakes that they made, and they don’t have to make the same mistakes that you made, right?

So, building that community that everyone could benefit from is really important.

Joey: Totally. Yeah, I, I don’t think that you can underestimate the value of community. Um, I, I’ll just give you this really quick story. There’s two people in my life that I love dearly, great friends of mine, and we’ve known each other. I would say both of them I’ve known for probably 10 plus years, 10, 12 years, let’s say.

And throughout that time, I have dramatically changed after implementing the things that we’re talking about, shifting the way I think, getting in rooms with people that are way far ahead of me in terms of the way they think and masterminds and other things. And recently I was talking to them and it was like they were still at the same spot that when we met, mentally, professionally, whatever.

And in both cases, I don’t, I didn’t want to, I don’t want to sound braggadocious in any way, shape or form. I literally went to them. I said, man, I think you’re thinking too small. They were telling me what they’re up to and all this stuff. And I was like, I don’t want you to take this wrong but you have way more potential than what you think you have.

And the only reason I know that is because I used to think the same way, but being in the right rooms around the right people has drastically lifted my lid and you need your lid lifted. And they’re like, wow, thank you. You know, you’re right. But I’m just telling you tangibly, I’ve seen it in the lives of some of the people that I love the most and there is no going back once that lid is lifted, there is no going backwards. So anyway, just just something that happened recently I thought I’d share.

Tim: No, that’s, that’s interesting. And, you know, it’s funny how oftentimes we, you know, we speak with people and they said, you know, let’s say they’re ready to, to implement the infinite banking concept today. And they say, hey, you know, uh, somebody showed me this eight years ago or ten years ago and I just wasn’t ready or I didn’t understand it or I didn’t think it could work or whatever.

And you, you look at, you know, like Nelson used to say, the longer you wait, the longer you punish yourself. And it’s so true because it’s a different life. It’s a better life. And people just don’t, they don’t. They don’t see that. They don’t see it because they can’t see it looking through the lens they’re looking at things or the perspective which they’re viewing things.

But when you change their perspective, you know, all of a sudden, the world of possibilities has opened up for them.

Joey: A hundred percent.

Tim: So Joey, let’s talk about how, uh, our audience or, uh, our listeners can get in touch with you.

Joey: Well, I’ll tell you one of the things that we typically do is, um, we’ll just set up a page for people to access any of the things we talked about today. You can get a copy of the book. You can actually take that investor DNA profile assessment. If you don’t know what sort of investor you are. Um, and I think our contact information’s on there, email and so on.

But if you go to wealthwithoutwallstreet.com/control your cash, uh, wealthwithoutwallstreet.com/control your cash. All of that information is on there and just keep it simple so you can access any of the things we talked about.

Olivia: Well, thank you so much for joining us today. Um, for anyone out there who wants to get a copy of Joey’s book, be sure to visit that web page and, uh, thank you so much. It’s been great chatting with you today.

Joey: Always a pleasure to be in the room with like-minded people. So thank you guys.

Olivia: Awesome, thank you.

Tim: Joey, it’s been our pleasure to have you. And, uh, we’re looking forward to meeting up with you and Russ at some point in the future.

Joey: Likewise. 

Olivia: Hello and welcome to the Control Your Cash podcast. I’m your host Olivia Kirk 

Tim: and I’m Tim Yurek 

Olivia: Today we have with us Jeremiah Dew from The Cash Compound and The Banking Bros. 

Jeremiah: That’s right. We have a special edition podcast as well. We’re co-joining and co-creating today. It’s the Cash Compound Podcast with Olivia and Tim.

And, uh, we are going to be interviewing them. Maybe they’re interviewing us. How is this going to work? Who knows? It’s going to be a great conversation between the three of us. In the infinite banking space. So here we go. 

Olivia: Awesome. 

Tim: So Jeremiah, I love your story on how you and Jonah came to know or understand infinite banking.

And before we get there, give us a little background because you also have a really, uh, neat history prior to Infinite banking, uh, you know, as, as the voice, I believe of college basket, was it basketball for Clemson University? 

Jeremiah: Yes, indeed. So, yeah, I have a background in speaking and emceeing and family entertainment.

Some of that was in sports, but a lot of people saw me do that in my neck of the woods, in the upstate of South Carolina, that’s the Northwest corner of the state. For a long time, 13 seasons through the end of 2022, I was the MC for men’s and women’s basketball, Clemson Athletic, Clemson University. As well as prior to that, I had been the MC for a minor league Red Sox team in our neck of the woods.

So a lot of t-shirts got thrown in my day. That’s, that’s kind of the main thing, as long as you, you get a couple of friends, throw a couple of shirts and make everybody else mad. That’s, that’s my job. 

Olivia: I think everyone can relate to that. 

Jeremiah: Yeah, you, uh, so yeah, so those types of things were what I was doing.

My brother was completely different line of work. Uh, I’ve got some years on him and Jonah who runs The Cash Compound with me got out of school and went into the banking world and this is um, this is a retail banking. So he’s he’s in the uh, uh, the call center taken, taking people’s complaints, answering questions about the checking and savings accounts, that type of stuff.

And he kind of worked his way up into a little bit of a supervisory role. So if you’re irate enough, you can reach Jonah. And, uh, and then after that, he, uh, saw an opportunity in, uh, property and casualty insurance, PNC still in our neck of the woods, when we were also in a networking group where we discovered this idea.

Behind infinite banking it found us. We found them people told us about it We’re sorely confused, but that’s where things got to about 2015 when we first heard about this concept 

Tim: So talk talk to us a little bit about uh like that learning process when you get exposed to this idea And you’re like, I don’t know if it works maybe it does, maybe it doesn’t.

You sort of check a little bit under the hood. You get some answers, but you don’t get all the answers, but you’re like, wow, if this works, this might really be something. And then you just keep, keep tinkering with it. Cause that was literally my experience. But, but tell us how, how that whole thing evolved and you got to the point where you’re like, hey there’s some teeth to this. 

Jeremiah: Well, yeah, exactly. That’s exactly what happened. So I was told about Nelson Nash’s book. Now, everybody out there who follows us and you heard about this guy, who is this R. Nelson Nash guy. And I heard about his book. The fifth edition of Becoming Your Own Banker is what I picked up shortly after hearing about in a very crude and badly put assumption about what was going on, what infinite banking was.

So I got the book, off Amazon. I read the book and I thought, oh no, it was just like being back in high school. I just read this book. I can read English. It didn’t take me all that long, but I have no comprehension of what just happened. What is, what is they, what are they talking about? What is this? And of course I skipped over all the charts.

I mean, there’s nothing to read there. There’s just numbers. So I am not familiar with insurance. Now I know what life insurance is, but I’m not familiar with utilizing it for any type of concept. And I’m a Dave Ramsey guy at this point in my life. So personally I had saved up all my money. And Dave Ramsey said, don’t pay other people interest by getting into credit card debt.

So save up your money and then, you know, spend it, go back to zero. That’s all I knew. So, uh, what I was reading, I didn’t understand. So my next feat was to go to YouTube. I’m a pretty visual guy. I do marketing. I understand being in front of the camera. I like video. I go to YouTube. I look up all the bold print, right?

That’s what you do in high school. Look up all the bold words and try to understand what they mean. So all of these words inside his book that I don’t understand. I start YouTubing them, googling them, looking for people who made videos or explanations on what is this stuff. I don’t understand what financing is.

I don’t really understand what cash value is. I don’t understand these. There’s so many analogies from who became our mentor and Nelson Nash that have to do with Airplanes. I don’t know anything about aviation. What are these guys talking about? Like, what? I don’t, what? What is it? I thought we were going to get rich here.

And I’m worried about dying because they’re talking about life insurance. Like, now they want me to die. I’m a little bit confused. So that’s kind of how it started. And then we found who became really kind of one of our earliest mentors in the game. He connected us to some of the guys that we work with now as well.

And they were there to describe what’s going on. Um, it’s kind of like what the New Testament says. You know, there’s the, uh, There, there’s the, um, the, uh, the guy who’s reading the Old Testament scriptures of Isaiah. And somebody comes up to him and they ask, the prophet asks that man, “Do you understand what you’re reading?”.

And he’s like, No. How do I understand unless someone explains it to me? That’s why we have this whole practitioner model that we’re all involved with, right? How do, I don’t really understand. How to do this or what to do, unless someone’s going to explain it to me. So that’s kind of how it started for us.

I was intrigued. The people who are doing this process were a lot richer, wealthier and doing stuff we didn’t understand. So we trusted them. We knew there was something to it, but boy, I felt dumb when I first got into it by myself. Cause it was like, see, this is why I’m not rich. I don’t know what the crap they’re talking about in this book.

Tim: Well, you know, there’s, there’s so many similarities to your path to the concept and mine, because, you know, the, the difference that you, the advantage that you had is that you had YouTube and videos, and there were a lot more, there was a lot more people involved with this concept. And there was a lot of education out there.

And to your point, some good, some bad, but it all keeps moving you forward. Back in the day, when I first met Nelson Nash, it was 1997. He didn’t write the book until 2001, I believe. So there, there is only one source and that was Nelson. And I was just brazen enough and just stupid enough to pick up the phone and call him.

And I’ll never forget, uh, when I called Nelson, he answered the phone. He’d say, Nelson Nash. And I said, is this Nelson Nash? And he goes, That’s what I said. 

Jeremiah: There you go. So, yeah, we don’t know how to start these conversations sometimes. Like what, what do I say next? Yeah. 

Tim: I had no idea that he was going to answer, actually answer the phone.

And so I would ask him some questions. He would answer the questions and. That would satisfy me up to that point. And then I dig into it a little bit deeper and have a few more questions. So several days later I’d call Nelson and now we’re starting to create a bit of a relationship. And finally, it gets to the point where, you know, I feel like I’m intruding on this guy’s life and he’s giving me a lot of time.

And I’m not compensating him in any way, shape or form. So I said, Hey, what would it take to get you to come up to Wilkes Barre, Pennsylvania from Birmingham, Alabama, to teach me and my clients about this concept? Cause at that point I was really thinking that this, this could be the thing I’m looking for.

And sure enough, he says, yeah, you know, we arranged something and it was July 17th, 1997 and I, I had about 12 or 13 clients and part of that group was a few agent friends of mine and we got together and Nelson came up and he spent two days here in Wilkes-Barre educating us. On the infinite banking concept, but I’ll digress a little bit because when we get, when he gets to my office, he has this rollerboard and it’s filled with books.

You know, uh, Murray Rothbard’s book, What Has Government Done to Our Money? Whatever Happened to Penny Candy? All these different books and I’m thinking like what the hell’s going on here is this guy like it’s just like a book fair But it was all part of his message and and it all fit in retrospectively it fit in really well, and I’ll add one last part to that story as we all know Nelson passed away in March of 2019 and in January of 2019 he called me. And after the, you know, the initial, you know, how’s, how’s your family, how’s your family type thing.

Um, he gets right into it and he goes, my word, look what we started. And I’m sitting there thinking like, what’s this we stuff, you know? And I said, well, you know, Nelson, you, you know, you really do. You really did add a lot of value to a lot of people. And the downline to that is just amazing. When you think about the grandparents and children and grandchildren that you’ve made better off because of this concept, he goes, yeah, but you were, you know, you were part of that.

And I said, no, Nelson, I was not part of that. He goes, well, you know, I’m a forester. I said, or he said, you know, I, I was trained as a forester. And I said, yeah. And he said, uh, you know, a tree can’t grow unless it has fertile soil. And he said, you were fertile soil. 

Jeremiah: There you go. 

Tim: And he said, when, when Mary and I left Wilkes-Barre and we were driving back to Birmingham, I said to her, this is how we’re gonna get our message out.

He said, at that point in my life, I was really good. At covering this concept in my little neck of the woods in Birmingham, Alabama. But I had no idea how to get this message out to the world. And I said to Mary, we’re going to market this through other advisors and agents, and we’re going to go to their town and we’re going to teach our 10 hour seminar.

And that’s exactly what he did. And, uh, yeah, so I, I gave him that and uh, unfortunately I got to see him at Think Tank and unfortunately not too long after that, uh, probably about four or five weeks after Think Tank in 2019 he passed away, but he was a neat guy. He was a great, great human being and he, his impact is just so, so deep.

Um, he really, really changed the lives of a lot of people. 

Jeremiah: It’s so great to hear that type of legacy from people who knew him. We’re kind of in that second generation, maybe like Olivia, you know, who I, I didn’t get to meet him at all. Maybe she did, but Jonah and I started doing the process of infinite banking, like I mentioned, uh, at least mentally, right.

Rethinking our thinking about money. We both had policies early 2016. We did not meet him in those first three years that we were doing this. We’d heard about him, of course. We started to watch some of the things that folks like you, other practitioners, or in his institute were, um, posting at that point.

Because I’m a, you know, a pursuer of this content, but, uh, it’s a beautiful thing. You know, when I first saw that there was an old white guy, I mean, be, you know, base here for a second on the back of a book about finances from Birmingham, Alabama, and I knew a thing or two about Birmingham.

Historically, I have a black history show. And, uh, you know, I perform on stages as Martin Luther King and all these people. I said, well, I’m not calling that number. Maybe Tim’s going to call that number, but I’m not going to call that number. I don’t know if I want to talk to, I don’t know if that guy wants to talk to me.

So, um, it was a beautiful thing to hear about his testimony with people, all sorts of people, of course, and freeing them, uh, from, uh, the financial ruin that the government and themselves or credit cards, of course, and banks put them through and that’s he’s an economist, right? And we’ve started to learn through this one pinpoint idea and how to personalize the banking content and concept in your life through the massive problem and the massive disenchantment that we’ve all been through from our government’s corrupting dollars or banks and bankers and Wall Street doing the same thing. It’s a beautiful thing to hear about that story from the people who knew him well.

Tim: Yeah, absolutely. And, uh, you know, it’s, it’s also, I think, gratifying to see exactly how this whole movement has sort of, uh, morphed or evolved. And, you know, people had said to me, well, you know, that must have been great for you because, you know, you were the only person doing infinite banking. And I wasn’t the only one, but there was, there was maybe a handful or two at that time.

And, you have to understand what was going on in the world in the late nineties. People were, you know, the stock market was going up seemingly forever at 20, 25 percent a year. So if you’re selling cash value life insurance in an environment where the market is, is just handed out 20, 25 percent rates of return, year in and year out.

That’s not an easy sell. You know, that’s not an easy conversation to have with people. And I can’t tell you how many times people said, why would I ever put my money into something that’s earning 5 or 6 percent, which it was at the time. When I can get 20 percent in the market. And how do you, how do you come combat that?

Jeremiah: It’s a very, yeah, it’s a very interesting concept to think about, you know, when he first discovered the concept that was always sitting in front of him, that the interest rates were 15 16, 17, 18 percent plus. And same thing, right? It’s just, but banking exists. Banking is, banking is always happening, uh, even when the rates are up or the rates are down.

I love that. 

Tim: Great. And interest rates have nothing to do with it. 

Jeremiah: But everyone thinks it does. It’s throwing them off. It’s throwing them off mentally. Yeah. 

Tim: Yeah. We always, the, the, the, the analogy or the term we use is. Interest rates take our eye off the ball. And if you know, anyone who’s played baseball understands that’s that concept and that idea.

And it’s, it’s so true. And yeah, interest rates are attractive at times, high or low. You know, if you’re investing high rates are great. If you’re paying interest, low rates are great. The problem is we’re both, we’re always paying and we’re always saving. So how do we reconcile this? And that’s where I think the infinite banking concept really, you know, fills the void, so to speak.

Jeremiah: It really does. Now, Olivia, I’ve got to ask you one or two questions about how did you growing up with with a Tim Yurek, one of the founding fathers of this, according to Nelson, right? The boss man says that Tim was there from really day one of getting the concept to the masses is I got to wonder, you know, what’s it like for a second generation person who’s grown up around this?

Talking about it, forcing you into the family business. Are you being held hostage on this podcast right now? 

Olivia: I am free. We speak about freedom over here and I am free. Um, I’m here under my own will. Um, but yeah, it was, it was. It was interesting growing up, right? So I, I have memories of being at Nelson’s seminars, probably not in 1996, but certainly when I was a little bit older, um, and Nelson speaking and telling us not to steal the peas.

We were there for that first day, the intro, which is really the fun, the fun stuff, I imagine. That that we could sit through. So it was very impactful. He was such a great speaker. Very good at keeping the audience’s attention. If you if your eyes drifted off a little bit, like Olivia. And bring it, bring you right back throughout the whole room, um, with questions.

So it was very engaging and you know, it, I feel very fortunate to, to have grown up in this environment and had the opportunity to be mentored by someone who, who is not following the crowd. Right. Because the conventional wisdom does take our eye off the ball. It shows us ways that’s actually giving us.

Giving up control of our money, up control of our cash flow. It’s giving up our ability to actually achieve our goals by taking our eyes off the ball. Um, one of the things we often say is, the easiest way to get someone to do something that’s in their best interest is making it feel like it’s in your best interest, right?

So by focusing on interest rates and rates of return, it takes our eye off the ball and You know, in turn makes us make decisions that aren’t in our best interest. So growing up with my dad, you know, it kind of became instilled to me, not necessarily the life insurance part. Now that’s a totally different language.

Um, but the concepts of, you know, always having your money work for you. And, um, and all these things that we talk about. I mean, I feel very fortunate to have had the opportunities that I’ve had. And. Also have the opportunity to, to bring that forward and think about Nelson’s vision and how people like Tim and you and myself are able to bring that vision forward.

Right? So when Nelson died, his, his vision doesn’t die. His legacy doesn’t die. It continues to move forward because of the impact that we’re able to bring forward with this concept. 

Jeremiah: Love to hear it. Love to hear it. Yeah. So I, I only hope one day I’m assuming Tim that hearing that out of your daughter after maybe she was as hard headed as my little kids are, but they’re little, you know, and one day I was like, if my kids can speak, my daughter’s the oldest, if she can speak like Olivia is doing, then I’d be a proud father.

I’m sure you feel the same way about what she’s learning and how she continues the story. 

Tim: You know, and that’s a great point because It’s been incredible and it’s been incredibly gratifying to see her evolution through this, through this whole process of understanding, you know, it’s, it’s going to be 10 years in September.

And, uh, don’t get me wrong. There’s some days where it seems long, longer than 10 years, but, but no, that’s, that’s, that’s not true. But you know, the, the, the point is just to see how she has evolved as. Not only a like somebody who understands this concept, but also as a young woman as an advisor. I mean, it’s just incredible to have watched that and to think.

That I’ve had some part of that. 

Jeremiah: Very good. Well, I want to, you know, we’ve had a conversation before and it’s, uh, we’ve chalked it up to the archives who knows where it is, but we started to get into some of our background. I know you started asking that as well. So I’d like to explore that again with you.

Take us back to the way you grew up and how you thought about money coming up and. Obviously, that’s a big shift, I’m assuming, from the way your daughter thinks now. So, you know, I could do the same thing, and like, man, when I had my coming of age, my, the awakening, as Nelson would have called it, I was 31, you know, but There was 30 years plus of programming before that.

Tell us how you came up and even how you got into this business. You were already in financial services, helping people, advising people before this. So, you know, what was it like coming up, Tim, in the 19 hundreds? Now Libby don’t know about those dates. . 

Tim: Well, um, so I, I, you know, I was born in, in sixty two, nineteen sixty two and, uh, you know, grew up in the seventies.

You know, the sixties and the seventies. And, uh, we were not by any stretch of the imagination, wealthy. Uh, we were probably not middle class. We were probably on the lower rung of middle class if we were, but in all probability we were below that line. Uh, but we never thought that way and we never felt that it, it was just like we had everything we needed, maybe not everything we wanted and the things that we wanted.

We went out and worked for them. I mean, I’ve, I’ve always had, you know, I was always cutting grass or raking leaves or doing something to make money. And it always seemed that there was always some type of work available. I will say this, the worst job I’ve ever had, uh, there was a, a farmer that lived about three or four miles away from, from where we lived and he was good friends with my dad.

And he would pay me and my brother 10 each to, um, clean the stable or the pen where the bull stayed. And he would do that twice a year, every six months. And I can’t even begin to describe the God awful smell of ammonia and other things that I wouldn’t mention that And I will say this, that smell permeated your skin for days.

Um, but it was 10 bucks and that’s when 10 meant a lot. 10 doesn’t mean a lot because as president Biden said, because of Putin, but, uh, 

Jeremiah: Yeah, I got a different opinion on it than that. But yeah, I mean, it teaches you the value of work. It also teaches you that there’s a, you know, if you can bring value to people, what we do now, you know, bring value to people without the blood, sweat and tears of the bullpen, the literal bullpen.

Um, it’s a completely different chip. So how did you make it from the bullpen, you know, to the advisory table, you know, because every time I drive by, Uh, people who are working outside. Anytime I see men working physically with a shovel, I mean, I get that flashback that you get to the bullpen because any type of digging, shoveling, rocks, moving mulch, piles of making driveways, or spreading, Oh, it’s the worst for me, and I’m just so thankful I’m not there.

More power to the people who enjoy it. Obviously, sympathies. And, uh, my thoughts and prayers to the people who are out there who don’t enjoy it, but that’s the job for 15 year old boys, for sure. In my book. So how did you, you know, how did you transition? 

Tim: Well, you know, I was, I was always pretty good in school.

Um, and you know, I, I, uh, I played football in high school and I wanted to play in college and I got an offer from a small division three school and unbeknownst to me, It was a really good school and, uh, I got a degree in economics and now with economics, you got basically three choices. You got banking, investments, or insurance.

And so I did an internship my senior year with a firm called Dean Witter. And there’s probably a lot of folks that might be listening that might, might recall or remember Dean Witter. They don’t exist anymore, but. Uh, that indicated to me that that was not my cup of tea. And then there was traditional banking and I really never saw myself as a, as a banker, but a good friend of mine, a good friend of our family said, you know, you should try the insurance business because you’re a relationship type person.

And the insurance industry is very relationship oriented. And so I looked into that and, um, sort of. Well, I, I got my start in insurance and luckily for me, this was in the, you know, I graduated college in 84. I started, uh, in March of 85 and within a three or four year period, there used to be a firewall, if you will, theoretically, between the banking industry, the insurance industry and investments.

And. That wall started to come down in the mid to late eighties. And what happened was investment firms were now able to offer insurance and banking banks were out, were able to offer investments in insurance and insurance, uh, advisors or agents were now allowed to offer investments and banking services.

So everybody was doing everything and it, it appeared to me that I would have had the advantage because I was in a relationship oriented business and those other two industries were more transactional. And, you know, retrospectively, I think that that was a really good path for me. Uh, and then how I realized things were going bad because I was given this advice that The industry taught us to give, which was pay down your mortgage as quickly as possible.

Max out your 401k. Pay off your credit cards as quickly as possible. I’m not saying in and of themselves, those things aren’t bad, but in the, in the macro, in the big picture, all of those strategies, put your money out of reach when you need it most. And, uh, I really came to understand this in 1993 at Christmas time.

Uh, We were talking about the good old days and the good old days were the time where we went to pick up my dad’s check and the car wouldn’t start. So we had to get the car towed and all of the embarrassing things that come along with that. And, uh, my mom, I remember saying to my mom, well, why were we there?

Why didn’t you just wait for the next day? And the look she gave me was just sort of like, so incredulous. She said, honey, we live pay to pay. We needed that money, or they were going to turn off the gas or the electricity or something. And, uh, that’s when it, it dawned on me right then and there. I was literally living pay to pay at that stage of my life at 31 years old.

Now. You know, this event happened when I was 10 and now I’m 31 and I’m still in the same spot and I’m making really good money. So it’s not the fact that I was, wasn’t making enough money that was holding me back. It had to be something else. And sure enough, it was how I was using my money. And that’s when I figured some things out, and then kept searching, and that was 93, and by 97, that’s when I, I, I sought out and, and found Nelson, and the rest, as they say, is history.

Jeremiah: And that’s, that, it’s so interesting that, you, you know, the, the philosophers have always said that the teachers appear when the student is ready. You know, and, um, seek and ye shall find, right? That’s biblical. And so we’ve got to be looking for the answers. And what’s interesting to me is, my coming of age, and me and my brother together, uh, around the idea that our dollars don’t have to be given off to third parties and controlled by folks.

We can’t get to them, and in these environments that, oh, there’s gonna benefit you in the long run, but you can’t touch them now, right? Loss of control was basically because We were out here doing all sorts of crazy different things and trying different angles to try to like, there’s got to be a secret of the rich and wealth.

There’s haves and have nots. That’s just the way I thought about it and I said, you know what? Maybe I’ve watched just enough tv. Most of the time you hear the TV ruins kids’ minds. I was like, I’ve watched just enough TV as reality television started to get big in my teen years. No, I mean, surely. I can get to a place where I’m not working.

I’m just on TV. Like these people, I’m famous for being famous. I’m rich for being rich. Something is out there that I don’t understand, surely. And if I work hard enough, maybe I’ll find it. And that’s how it was for me. So the creativity that surrounded me watching TV, like spawned my ability to like, I’m going to go find something.

Cause these Kardashians on you, they ain’t doing nothing. They got lots of money. I’m gonna figure that out. That’s the job I want. I want that job. So, uh, what we were doing, you know, I tell the story from time to time that my brother was, uh, he had just gotten a year or two before we were on, uh, on this kick for infant and banking, trying to read these books and watch these I, he got me kicked off at eBay for selling fake beats by Dre headphones, you know, like that’s what we were doing We were I was trying all sorts of things like I got to figure out how to make money And you start to realize uh, you know the skills of selling something or like you said paying yourself first Really is what infinite banking is really where it starts in this product And that’s why we show people kind of our visuals that we do Is uh, you’ve got to keep the money that you make you were saying the same thing if I make three times What dad made coming up in the 70s and 80s?

And I still don’t keep it. It doesn’t matter. It’s still paycheck to paycheck. Money goes in, money goes right back out. And that intermediary system, where do we place our money first is just going to change the whole game. And if we understand the components of, if you place it in this product, we always alliterate everything around here.

If we place it in this product for this process, you know, all these features come along with it. And that completely changes it. We’re like, Oh, well, it’s not just about getting high returns on investment. And these long term uncontrollable volatile assets, we hope they’re assets anyway, it’s controlling the, where you put it in the first place before you get in all that crazy stuff.

And then you have all the w the world, it becomes your oyster. It’s open to you for the possibility. And so it’s interesting for us. We grew up in a military family. And dad was enlisted in the army. We’re both born overseas and Money wasn’t a topic. It really we’re all open to it And now dad’s passed but mom is remarried to an airman and we can have these conversations within our family It’s not taboo to talk about money We just never talked about it coming up because it was a quick conversation.

Uh, we don’t have any, so what’s there to talk about, you know? Uh, but we, we, you know, and, uh, I told my mother one time when I was in college, you know, mom, I’m just really like not interested in being where you are at your age, I want to make so much more money. And I was on the verge of thinking that was going to get popped in the mouth by saying something disrespectful.

And she responded with, No, I highly suggest you do that. I highly suggest you do better than me. You know, I was like, oh good Well, i’m glad I have your permission because I got to go find something. I’m i’m sick of being broke. So, uh, Realizing that over time being exposed to infinite banking like so many people that we talk to we do a lot of social media We do a lot of speaking on stages people Don’t dig deep enough.

That’s not what social media is always for sometimes it’s for the quick hits and the short form content You But you really need to think back and listen to that piece again. If you can really pay yourself first and this environment in which you put your money is all that matters. So you can control the flow of cash.

Who’s getting it, where it’s coming from, where it goes back to, does it come back to its home base and keep growing for you? People need to pay attention to that because if you do that, it changes everything. And now I can understand what the heck Nelson meant when he said you got a tailwind. I did not know before.

Tim: Yeah. It’s so, you know, it’s so awesome because as you were saying that when I first got into business, there was a, a really good insurance agent out of, uh, I think it was Canton, Ohio, his name was John Savage and John Savage used to draw two circles on a page, uh, on a, on a sheet of paper. And. He would draw this circle on the left and towards the bottom of the circle, he would draw a line and then he would take the circle on the right and near the top of the circle, he would draw a line.

And he said, basically there are two types of people in the world on the left. These people spend and then save what is left and there’s never anything left.

But the people on the right, they save first. And spend the difference

and he would love to make that presentation to a young person Because he would look that person in the eyes and say now let me uh, let me explain to you Why this is important to you because these people on the left always Work for the people on the right 

Jeremiah: And 

Tim: he said, if that’s what you want, then keep doing what you’re doing.

But if eventually you want people to work for you, you need to save money first. I mean, that was his presentation and he did incredibly well. But I just look back and think, okay, he did well, but how about the impact that he had on people? Are 

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Tim: Uh, as you were saying, you know, talking about saving first, That, that’s exactly what came to mind. And that’s, that goes back for me to probably 1985 or 1986.

Olivia: Exactly. And when I think about that and what impact we’re able to make in this position, I think about, you know, when you, when you visualize those two circles and saving first for a lot of people that feels like giving up their lifestyle. And yeah, I’m sure it may give up a portion of your lifestyle, but what we’re actually able to do a lot of the times Is use the cash flow that’s already being used in efficiently and and use it in a more efficient manner to make up that savings and to.

Save first and that’s what’s really able to make an impact that I see By making that money more efficient and you know, not necessarily having to pinch the cash flow and and and feel Feel like you can’t afford things necessarily because we’re all using money. We’re all spending money We’re all buying things But that’s not the point.

The point is how are you using your money? Is it as efficient as possible and working for you at all times? 

Jeremiah: And it’s, and it’s such a paradigm shift. We all know that because when we’re talking to people, you have to start them a lot of times from where they are and back them up because they’re so ingrained in something else, an investment strategy.

I get people ask me all the time, you know, Hey, well, I see you on TikTok. I go live. We train people in group sessions, things like that. We do social media around what we call the save and spend system. And they said, Hey, well, I’ve got some money, you know, I sold my house. I had a guy this weekend, just this weekend, you know, last week, as we’re recording this in June, summer of 2024, you know, Olivia, you and I, and all our people were hanging out in California, Santa Barbara at the Ritz, you know, um, way better than the bullpens of Tim’s day back in the 1900s.

And, uh, I got home and I was at an event, so I’m still MC. And I was at an event. They asked me to do this fundraiser and, and, and help everybody raise money for meals on wheels. You know, everybody knows meals on wheels. And I was having a good time. I was sitting there with a DJ and he said, you know, I just sold my family house.

Parents have now passed. I sold the family house. I’m an only child. So I’ve got the money was able to pay off my debt. You know, what a legacy. Great thing there. I took care of that. And I’m trying to figure out, you know, I’m about to put this money in a CD. You know, what do you do? With money you got any ideas and I said boy do I have the slideshow for you My friend is we’re gonna sit here at this event for a couple of hours where everybody’s on the lake It was an outdoor event.

So he and I got to chat for a while And like you said, it’s the first thing that I want this guy to understand Is not great investment strategies. That’s where he was going. That’s where he wanted to talk about. I said, why don’t you make sure we keep the money first? Why don’t you make sure it doesn’t go away?

It’s not at risk. You don’t lose it Why don’t we start there? And so what i’m saying like you’re saying Olivia, we got to back him up. I gotta say hold on before we put it at risk. What were you thinking? Why don’t we keep it? What if I can show you how to always have it? and grow and cashflow, but you never lose it.

He’s like, show me more. So we had a great conversation and now he is rethinking a complete shift of the 150, 000 that he has, you know, and he didn’t know what to do with it. Why? Not because he’s not a good dude. Not because his parents didn’t love him. Didn’t leave him some money. Didn’t leave him the house to sell.

Cause he had no idea that you don’t go first into risk. You don’t go first into those categories. You actually keep the money and put it in an efficient place first. It’s somewhere right now. It wasn’t at the DJ booth with us. What if I can show you where to keep it in your possession? And it always works for you.

We can leverage off of it and it always gets better. And it’s income tax free. And it’s, you know, not subject to judgment and liens and it’ll pass on to your 10 year old that you have. And he’s like, What is this magical, mystical place? I said, well, you’ve heard of it. You’ve always known what it was and you don’t understand it because neither did I, nobody talks about it like this.

And let me tell you a little bit more about my favorite friend over here in boring old 200 year life insurance. You know, I blew his mind after a couple of minutes and uh, you have to, but you have to relate him to where he is and where, cause he’s a hardworking guy, but he’d never had money. And now that he has money, he’s like, I’m asking random emcees at the lake.

What do you think I should do with it? And I said, boy, I got, I got something 

Tim: for you. 

Jeremiah: Check this out, 

Tim: you 

Jeremiah: know. 

Tim: That’s awesome. And you know, it’s what I loved about what you said, Jeremiah, is that, you know, you’re basically meeting him where he is. In other words, at this stage in his life. And and it’s it’s so critical that we do that because we can’t speed up the process.

Unless the people are ready to move forward and and that’s one of the things that I think probably one of the greatest things that I’ve learned over the years. You really can’t force the process. It’s got to. Sort of marinate and germinate through that person and eventually it does or it doesn’t but either way it’s okay 

Jeremiah: yeah, you said it you said exactly right eventually it does or it doesn’t and sometimes in the world of sales and advisory in the world of Common sense, you know with sometimes it doesn’t people aren’t gonna get it or they’re not ready for it at the time So can’t force it on them.

They have to come to their own awakening because Like we were saying earlier, if they figure it out, well, then I don’t have to tell him anything. Nelson probably said it like this, and I’ve watched the way he says some things. I’m sure, and Tim can correct me. He’s, he’s the disciple and I’m the descendant, but.

If people know what’s going on, they’ll know what to do. So help them know what’s going on. You know what I’m saying? So I just tell them what’s going on. And I said, you know what to do with that? He got it. You know, I said, yeah, let me watch your stuff. I’m gonna call you and all that stuff. Cause I told him what was going on.

Tim: Well, you know, it’s funny too, Jeremiah, because if you look in at Nelson’s book, right, he tells you maybe not in clear words, but he tells you that you do not need life insurance. To become, you know, to, to utilize infinite banking. And he shows you in the book when he compares, you know, the, the, the twin sisters, we call it the CD method versus life insurance.

You, you could get out, come out ahead just using a deposit account at the bank versus life insurance because there are so many people who have, uh, preconceived notions about life insurance that probably are not correct. And that’s okay. Right? We’re not here to convert people. We’re here to help them.

Jeremiah: Yeah, we can’t help people that don’t want to be helped. We’re helping to open the eyes of the people who want to change and realize they can have that control. 

Tim: That is exactly the point. And it’s so amazing where people get frustrated because the person didn’t catch it. Well, they didn’t catch it. That’s okay.

Their family is going to pay the price, but the value to me, the biggest value to me of infinite banking is that we’ve implemented this in our lives and it has made an incredible difference. We literally overnight, you go from a mindset of scarcity. To a mindset of abundance. 

Jeremiah: It’s beautiful. And you know, it’s funny that you say that, of course, we talked about those twin sisters inside Nelson’s book and the best this guy knew of, and the idea he gave me at the DJ booth for what he was planning to do with the money.

Was a CD and I said, well, hey, you’re gonna get a great rate these days, you know, compared to historically in the last 10 years or so Olivia don’t know about these old days, but yeah, you could get five and a half percent in the CD for sure, whatever bank you might be using. However, what if we compared that to and we have a little comparison chart and I was able to sit at the DJ booth and show him we had all day.

You know, is there a death benefit? No. Is there principal protection? Well, yes, there is principal protection. Is there guaranteed growth? Yes, CDs have that as well, you know Is it going to be tax free at withdrawal time or use time? Oh, no, not exactly, you know And so we were able to go back and forth because Like you said, Tim, a lot of folks maybe who don’t look at us deeply enough, who don’t listen to your podcast or mine deeply enough, think that we’re anti these other financial products.

Not necessarily. We just have to understand where we put money first, where it’s most efficient. And if you’d like to borrow against this cash value, DJ Josh, and put it in a CD, go for it, man. But maybe you should think about putting it inside the life insurance. First, then you can put it in your seat.

Tim: Exactly. Yeah, that’s so awesome. So Jeremiah, one of the things that I love is your explanation of the cash value as it relates to the death benefit. And I see you got your cup set up. So can you take us through that, that, uh, explanation? 

Jeremiah: Oh, happy to. I, so happens I have my cups right here. Like you mentioned, I love it.

Don’t leave home without it, folks. Don’t leave home without it. You got to be ready for the three cups set up. It is part of how we explain the product and then get into the process of infinite banking around here at the cash compound. So yes, a few years into it, I’ll give you the origin story too. You know, my brother is helping people after market.

We started teaming up with our friend at the money multiplier. You know, obviously we’re all. Closely connected with our great friends over there, also practitioners in the Nelson Nash Institute. We were with them from the beginning, and my brother’s doing all the aftermarket, what we might call policy servicing, right, in the industry.

We’re just helping people with their cash value, and changing their address, and understanding where to pay these loans back, or whatever they’re trying to do. And I’m kind of on the front end, more the marketing, and maybe the figurehead of trying to get people, new people, interested in this idea. My brother comes to me right about four years ago, I think at this point now, early 2020, and he says, man, I’m getting so frustrated.

I’m on the phone with these people all the time. They have policies. They’ve started infinite banking. They want to become small p practitioners of doing this concept effectively for their family. And everybody thinks they’re withdrawing their own money. They don’t understand. I don’t know how to explain to them that we’re not taking money from the politics.

They’re like, how in the world can it keep compounding, or why would it get bigger? Why would I pay interest on my own money? All these types of questions. Dave Ramsey’s sneaking in somehow. He must be undermining all these people we’re talking to. And I’ve got to figure out, man, I’ve got to show them, like, it’s coming from a different bucket.

And I said, well, why don’t we just put a different bucket in front of them? So that’s where the three cup setup came from. We got to show them that it’s coming from a different bucket So cup number one the red cup is premium Sometimes we add the word deposit on it because we’re going to use this as a bank We got to save that up and we’re storing it for later, but premium.

Those are dollars We give an entrance company right olivia. It’s going to be interactive. You can be miss kirk here. You can you can be My person. So we’re going to pay the insurance company money. Give them money. If you give dollars to the grocery store, you get groceries. If you give dollars to the gas station, you get gas.

If you give dollars to an insurance company, what do you get? 

Olivia: You 

Jeremiah: get the benefit. You get a policy, right? You get paperwork. You get peace of mind. You get a pool of cash for later. All right, I’m Baptist. Everything’s alliterated. There’s a lot of peace there. Okay. We give them premium. We now get a benefit.

Life insurance, that pool of cash is the benefit. That’s cup three. Death benefit. Cup one, red. Cup three, benefit. A little dollars, if you can see us out there, a little of our dollars buys a lot of theirs. Right? That’s how Jacob State Farm works too, right? We give them a little premium, it buys a lot of car insurance, and we wait, like a good neighbor, he’ll show up, if a tree lands on our car.

Well, we now have purchased something from the insurance company, because this type of life insurance we want to use is whole life insurance, Olivia. Whole life. How long do you think that lasts? 

Olivia: I think it lasts for my whole life. 

Jeremiah: Your whole life. Very good. Some people like to say, you know, it lasts until you’re 30 years.

I said, no, no, you might be thinking term on that one. You said, oh, it lasts until you’re 100. I said, well, maybe, but maybe, what if you lived to 101? See, whole life insurance lasts your whole life. It doesn’t last till you’re a hundred if you die tomorrow, it lasts till tomorrow, because that’s your whole life.

So we bought something from them that must pay out, doesn’t expire or go away. And since we bought this pool of money for our friends, family, church, and charity, whoever you want, we bought it, but we haven’t paid for all of it yet. It’s kind of like your house. Every time you pay more, as you live longer, there’s more and more equity.

That’s cup number two cash value is how much equity you’ve got it’s paid up paid off or paid for It’s how much of the benefit we bought that we can get access to it’s equity You don’t like your house and you can get to that lines of credit key locks, right? Is this making sense to people like oh, yes See, we’ve bought this big pool of money for our family cash value in the green cup in the middle is now liquid and leverageable And if we take money out of cup two olivia We’re going to take a big gulp out of this cup.

How much of the money we contributed to this policy came out? 

Olivia: None. 

Jeremiah: None! We didn’t put any money in Cup 2. This is the insurance company’s money, and we borrowed against the value that we purchased. Our money is still in Cup 1. Let me tell you about all the guarantees in Cup 1. Guarantees in Cup 1 is your money doesn’t go down or backwards.

Not an investment. It’s insurance. Those are different things. Completely. Number two, it’s guaranteed to get bigger. Of course, we knew it bought a big pool of money. And number three, it’s guaranteed to continue to compound and grow. So the amount of money that we gave them has guaranteed growth on it.

They’ll give it to us in the paperwork. They want to put guarantees at the top. And they’ll say, Hey, there’s more and more and more of our money that you have access to cash value, green cup from what you bought, blue cup, that’s benefit. And the final thing is, Premiums are level. It doesn’t cost any more to do this.

We’re going to be locking you in. You give us this money, it’ll compound and grow forever. So the three cups set up right there in its essence is that premium cup one by depth benefit cup three cash values. How much of that depth benefit is liquid or leverageable. If you don’t want to use it, Olivia, totally fine.

Your family’s going to get it. But if you want to call and say, can I have the money I bought? They’re going to say, Hey, you can’t trick us. You’re not dead. If you call us, you can’t have the money you bought, but you can get through the equity. You can get to cash value and borrow against it if you like.

Then we got our little shot glass here. This is where my baptist background breaks down. We got a little shot glass here. I know we can’t have that. It’s a little communion glass here, but right here represents what we’re going to get each and every year from a mutual company. It’s dividends. Each and every year mutual companies give us a little piece of the profit.

They don’t have stockholders to pay out to. Nobody’s buying these shares on the market. So they let us be part owners. They declare dividends as profits and they say, where do you want them? And I said, Hey, I like money with my money. So just pour it on top of the money I’ve contributed to you in cup one, the red one and more premium buys us what Olivia?

Olivia: More death benefits. 

Jeremiah: More death benefit, which means we’re going to have more cash value as well. So it just keeps getting bigger and better all the time. So that’s how we set up the product for people. And that’s a great visual for social media. It’s a great conversation starter. And so it always helps them, like you mentioned, when people go, wait, okay, so hold on.

Now we’re taking these dollars out of cash value, barring against them or whatever, like, you know, but, you know, do we have to pay for that? Is there interest on that or whatever, you know? And I said, remember, our dollars are still earning constant compounding. Everybody liked it. Hear the word uninterrupted compound interest, but that’s not alliterated enough for me.

So constant compounding on our dollars, amortized interest on borrowing against their money. We’re not borrowing our money out. That would be a withdrawal. If we take it out, it won’t compound anymore. Just like with the bank. We’re not going to take ours out. That’d be dumb. We’ll do that later, maybe in retirement or something like that.

Nelson will show you page 8283 in the book. We’re going to borrow against it right here. By using our policy as collateral, being able to get cash value loans from the insurance company, see it’s a different pool. And that really sets people up for success in their brain at first, because if they do not, I heard, you know, recently we saw each other again at the NNI Institute’s annual event in Vegas this year, had so much fun with that.

We got to speak at that one, my brother and I, but, uh, we, maybe it was there that I heard somebody say, Hey, you know, if the, uh, If you understand what’s going on, if you don’t understand what’s going on, the numbers don’t matter. If you do understand what’s going on, the numbers won’t matter. Because what we’re not talking about here is the contribution of premium you’d like to do.

I don’t know. Whatever makes sense for you. We’re not there yet. We’re just explaining what’s going on. If you know what’s going on, then you’ll know how much you and your family should be doing. But I can’t tell you that at the beginning. If you don’t know what’s going on, it just sounds like really, really expensive insurance.

Tim: Jeremiah, I love that, uh, presentation or explanation. It is so easy to understand and yet so powerful. Thanks for sharing that. 

Jeremiah: Yeah, you’re welcome. Thank you. Let’s give a shout out to my brother. He’s busy on the phone right now. I get to converse with. People like you, he’s probably helping somebody understand it right now.

So from our frustration and through our pain, maybe you had the same things, you know, coming along, helping people walk through this idea. That’s where this was born out of. It was born out of necessity to fix the problem because we realized the problem wasn’t in the product. It wasn’t in the process. The problem was in everybody’s mind.

Every time they’re like, I don’t, why wouldn’t the world would I borrow my own money? We hear that every day. Yeah. How would I borrow my own money? Or, if my money’s earning 3, 4, 5, how can I borrow at 5, 6, 7 and come out on top? Or like, whoa, do we have something to explain to you? I don’t know who came up with this, Isaac Newton Galileo?

But compound interest is stronger than amortized interest. Let me show you, you know, so because people are like, this makes no sense because there never been bankers. We’ve given up that banking opportunity to third parties and commercial bank. And we’ve not been bankers ourselves. And once we go back to controlling banking function in our life, numbers don’t matter anymore.

Oh, I get it. I control it. And it always goes up. Doesn’t even matter. 

Tim: Nelson used to have a way. When, uh, I would call him and say, Hey, I’m, I’m, I’m having a hard time getting these illustrations to work out. And he would say, Tim, you’re getting hung up on the numbers. And when I would talk to him in person and I would ask him those types of questions, he would stare down over his glasses at me and say, Tim, you’re getting hung up on the numbers.

But I used to love that, uh, well, I didn’t love it, but I love the way he did it. 

Jeremiah: We can look back on it finally at this point, right? So yeah, 

Olivia: well, a lot of times it is so easy We’re always trained to look at the numbers right by conventional wisdom Look at the numbers look at the interest rate look at the rate of return And again, that’s what takes our eyes off the ball and the ball is the bigger picture of how we’re using our money How we’re able to make our money more efficient And how we could have it Actually, they’re on a guaranteed basis to help achieve all of our financial goals all throughout our life.

And that’s really the process that we talk about and teach people, right? Because it’s not stationary and, you know, I feel I feel better having a guaranteed rather than a maybe, especially when it comes to, you know, the things that I want to achieve, right? 

Jeremiah: 100%. And that’s not just investment. That is the combination of what insurance companies got crazy about her and back in Tim’s day and the eighties and Nelson’s day when he started this getting into universal life policies, all the flexibility, the market access or the market exposure to it.

And we’ve got to fight that fight with people as well. And it’s beautiful because if you go back to the fundamentals and the guarantees and the growth and the access and the control and the tax freedom and all those types of things, and you can still start there. When people want to talk about universal life products, index, universal life products, retirement rate of return.

I’m like, hold on, let’s back it up again. Let’s back it up again. 

Tim: You know, and, and Nelson, and he says in the book, right? It’s not about interest rates. It’s and it’s not. And that’s the key. This is all about being in control. And one of the things that we always say to our, our P our folks is. You are either going to be controlled by the process or you will be in control of the process.

It’s your choice. It makes no difference to us. 

Jeremiah: I like that quote. I’m writing that one down.

Well, let me, uh, get a little bit of a taste. What’s next for you guys here in business? How do you operate your business? Who do you work with, you know, and what are people looking for when they come to you guys to, uh, Continue their banking experience. 

Tim: Well, so we, we like working with business owners. We think that we could have the most impact with business owners.

And we’ve done a lot of research and found that, according to Intuit, uh, the Intuit Corporation. They, they found that 61 percent of small business owners struggle with cash flow and 69 percent of small business owners either lose sleep or sleep less due to cash flow concerns. And in 39 years of working with business owners, I found that most or all of these cashflow issues are self inflicted.

So if you think about the impact that we could have on business by showing them. Number one, how to make their cashflow more efficient. Number two, how to save in an area that they own and control. And then number three, how to borrow against that money and pay interest back to an entity that they own and control.

I mean, let’s face it. Business owners went into business to be in control of their destiny. And they are in most aspects, except on the banking slash financing piece of their business. And now when you offer them this, we call it a life vest or a life jacket.

They want to know more and they want to be able to utilize that because they want more control. And, uh, so that’s where we we’ve had a lot of impact. 

Jeremiah: I love it. Well, we are, we want to be like you. When we grow up, we’ve been in business now for almost seven years or so helping people do this process after we started about nine and a half years ago.

And that’s what we do with the cash compound. We talk about code cracking cashflow or cracking the code to cashflow, teaching people starting right here at the save and spend system, right? We teach people how to save your money, spend someone else’s OPM. The insurance company’s got it there for you. And, uh, we are really going to, uh, we think change individuals and then families, business owners, and the culture, you know, and, uh, there’s a lot of people that came from where we came from or look like us.

Who we don’t think understand this well, so we’re finding them left and right through our channels out there So that’s what we’re doing at the cash compound. Appreciate you guys teaming up with us for this conversation and Enjoying the experience with you over and over again. We’ll do it again for sure but You know We’ve talked and have known each other now for two years or so and got to be friends just this year Um And this has been a great experience for us.

Appreciate you guys leading the way. Absolutely. 

Tim: No, it’s, it’s been, it’s been for us as well. And you know, every time I speak with you, Jeremiah, I come away better for it and also smarter for it. So thank you very much. Appreciate it. And, uh, you and your brother are doing God’s work. So just continue doing it.

Jeremiah: Appreciate you guys. Thank you.